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Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

reuters.com

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Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#351

Post by tptacek »

njepa wrote: post #349
tptacek wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not the meaning of "hacker" that attaches to security hackers and the EFnet #hack scene. (I was a part of that scene as well).

Largely regardless of ones definition of a hacker it was a subculture in the '80s, '90s and even early '00s. Because of the scarcity of information and resources there was motivation to organize, form groups and publish things in a way that you don't have today. A hacker was therefor at the time (regardless of the underlying activity) largely defined as someone who took part in hacker culture. In that sense it was ab…

I come from the same scene Beto O'Rourke comes from (though, not having grown up in Texas or Boston, I only had cDc friends, not "membership" myself).

I'm saying: there's the Steven Levy notion of "hackers", about exploration and getting extra slots on time-sharing computers and ordering sweet-and-sour bitter melon, and there's the Markoff and Hafner notion, about breaking into DEC for source code and owning up a sizable portion of the NSFnet Internet.

cDc is from the Markoff/Hafner side of "hackerdom".

(That's not a moral argument; there were good people among the Markoff/Hafner-type hackers, and holy shit were some of the white hats in the mid-1990s complete pricks).

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#352

Post by harrumph »

njepa wrote: post #189
busterarm wrote: post #79

Having been involved in the community for most of my life, my very first thought was "oh that's cool he's one of us" and then I remembered that historically hackers have been phenomenally bad people to give any kind of real power to.

~80/90s hackers aren't really the same thing as most post 00 hackers. A lot of people were in it because they were curious about this new thing and the opportunities to explore something and express themselves. The same way you would in other emerging cultures. Those aren't bad qualities.

> A lot of people were in it because they were curious about this new thing and the opportunities to explore something and express themselves. The same way you would in other emerging cultures. Those aren't bad qualities.

Can confirm. For me in the 80s it was about the writing and the friends, some of which I'm lucky to say I still have. Indulging in some phreaking when needed was about the extent of our "misuse" of technology.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#353

Post by js2 »

eli wrote: post #140
txcwpalpha wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's trying to make things sound more nefarious than they were, and it's playing the guilt by association card Are we reading the same article? If anything this article seems like a submarine PR puff piece to me, made to increase the image of Beto by making him seem "cool" and "hip" by associating him with the typically-seen-as-sexy "hacker" scene. This article is very similar to the pro-Beto stuff that was all over…

We are in a world where the exact same video of Beto skateboarding was posted by both opponents and supporters and each saw what they wanted in it. I would challenge the idea that being a “hacker” polls well for a presidential candidate. Recall that “hacking” was a bit of a problem in 2016.

Fox News: "Young Beto O'Rourke wrote 'murder fantasy' about running over children, was part of famed hacking group: report"

CNET: "Beto O'Rourke has serious hacker credentials. The presidential candidate was a member of hacker group Cult of the Dead Cow"

WaPo: "'Psychedelic Warlord': Beto O'Rourke's past life as a teenage hacker" and "Beto O’Rourke’s hacking universe, explained."

Sources:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-wrote-murder-f...

https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/beto-orourke-has-seriou...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/psychedelic-wa...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/15/beto-orou...

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#354

Post by dragonwriter »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #342
djur wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "system" did the DNC have to allow "rigging"? How did it work? Who operated it? What evidence is there that it existed, much less that it was used?

Here is enough background information [0] [1] [2] [3] quoted directly from people involved that should get you started. Unless Warren, Brazile, DWS and others are all wrong with their statements about it. [0] https://www.foxnews.com/politics/donna-brazile-i-found-proof... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-dnc... [2] https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-b... [3] https:/…

Insofar as those things provide any description of anything that might even loosely be described as a “system to allow rigging” it's the joint fundraising agreement between the Clinton campaign and the DNC.

Which hardly, even if viewed as such a system, can support your suggestion that such a system not only existed but should be suspected to still be in place.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#355

Post by js2 »

txcwpalpha wrote: post #147
barbecue_sauce wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'typically-seen-as-sexy "hacker" scene'? By who? His association with At The Drive-In gives him more street cred than any tenuous relationship with hacking.

Society glamorizes hackers hard . Have you ever seen War Games? The Matrix? Live Free or Die Hard? Mr Robot? Blackhat? Any recent spy movie? What about the multitude of other movies/shows where hackers aren't the focus, but are certainly glamorized, a la NCIS, CSI, Limitless, etc. There's an entire genre of film & television about hackers and they are almost always portrayed as cool, attractive, powerful people with…

> Society glamorizes hackers hard.

Hollywood glamorizes hackers, like violence, crime, rock n roll, space travel, and just about everything else hard.

At the risk of hyperbole, if society glamorized hackers hard, Aaron Swartz might still be with us.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#356

Post by RickJWagner »

"When he was younger, he was arrested on drunk-driving charges and played in a punk band. Now 46, he still skateboards."

Funny how the combine a very bad thing with some cool things as counter-weights. I'd have more faith in the objectivity of the article if they mentioned that O'Rourke actually put people's lives in danger, hit a vehicle, and tried to leave the scene. [1]

[1] https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article...

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#358

Post by kakarot »

tptacek wrote: post #351
njepa wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largely regardless of ones definition of a hacker it was a subculture in the '80s, '90s and even early '00s. Because of the scarcity of information and resources there was motivation to organize, form groups and publish things in a way that you don't have today. A hacker was therefor at the time (regardless of the underlying activity) largely defined as someone who took part in hacker culture. In that sense it was ab…

I come from the same scene Beto O'Rourke comes from (though, not having grown up in Texas or Boston, I only had cDc friends, not "membership" myself). I'm saying: there's the Steven Levy notion of "hackers", about exploration and getting extra slots on time-sharing computers and ordering sweet-and-sour bitter melon, and there's the Markoff and Hafner notion, about breaking into DEC for source code and owning up a siz…

Why can't both of these groups be considered hackers?

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#359

Post by tptacek »

kakarot wrote: post #358
tptacek wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from the same scene Beto O'Rourke comes from (though, not having grown up in Texas or Boston, I only had cDc friends, not "membership" myself). I'm saying: there's the Steven Levy notion of "hackers", about exploration and getting extra slots on time-sharing computers and ordering sweet-and-sour bitter melon, and there's the Markoff and Hafner notion, about breaking into DEC for source code and owning up a siz…

Why can't both of these groups be considered hackers?

They both are, with differing connotations.

Re: Beto O'Rourke's membership in America's oldest hacking group

#360

Post by emanuensis »

dvtrn wrote: post #92
dragonwriter wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately however, he may be too white and male to appease his party's intersectional hierarchy. Given that the top two Democratic candidates for 2020 by current polling are Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, I don't think there's much reason to think that being white or male is a huge disadvantage. His thin resume, OTOH...

Interested voter here, Illinois 4th Congressional District, could I get a link to your polling data?

Simple Google: https://www.google.com/search?q=biden+sanders+poll+lead
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