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Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

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Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#51
post #40

California better stop punishing entrepreneurs with it's heavy tax stick before experiencing disaster in it's tax revenues. Exodus seems to be accelerating.

This viewpoint doesn't appear to jive with the one being portrayed currently[1], that the exodus is only among the poor/middle-class and that the immigration of the rich and high-earners is actually accelerating.

1: https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-skelton-income-t...

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#52
post #2

I wonder why entrepreneurs don't come to Poland to build their product. Warsaw or Wroclaw in particular are vibrant, tech-oriented cities where life is about 1/4 of SF. If I had to bet my future on being able to building something with 1M, I would want to get 4 months instead of 1 for the money. Of course, SF might have better investing ecosystem, but once you got the money development should be done in a more approp…

What are the long term prospects for freedom of expression there? [1]

As a first generation immigrant I just don't think the opportunities for socio-economic mobility would be present for my (future) kids anywhere but in a liberal democracy.

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/10/poland-...

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#53
Ah, If I had a dollar for every time a post like this shows up on HN, I'd be a millionaire. It's either this, or some personal anecdote of how some founder took his startup to Austin, Detroit, Nashville, Seattle .. and they are kicking butt.

Last I checked, San Francisco alone accounted for 25% of the V.C Money and San Francisco + Silicon Valley accounts for over 45% of V.C. Money.

Source: https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/03/the-extreme-geographic-...

> The Bay Area—that is, San Francisco and Silicon Valley—currently accounts for nearly 45 percent of total venture capital investment in the entire United States

and there is no tug of war.

>This kind of story is often framed as a tug of war between Silicon Valley and the rest of the country

Write all you want, but if you are looking for funding (which most entrepreneurs are), then San Francisco and Silicon Valley is still the place to be at.

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to assume SF salaries will be offered in places that are also super cheap? Do you expect founders and investors to ignore the cost of living reality in Nowheresville just cause?

Why on earth would the value someone added to a company have anything to do with the cost of living where they live? Either you support remote or you don't but I would not expect different remote salaries based on where that remote employee lives. I know some companies do this, but I can't imagine it's a practice that will continue once remote work becomes the norm as it makes little sense.

Value added doesn't have much to do with it but there are other supply and demand factors at work. Truly remote friendly employers are still the exception so there is still high demand for engineers who are willing to relocate to the Bay Area. Someone not already there who is evaluating job opportunities will be considering a number of factors besides salary: cost of living, disruption of relocating to them and their family, lifestyle, culture, etc. and how they weight these factors will depend on the individual. They will be willing to accept pay lower by whatever it is worth to them to stay where they are.

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you're young and single and saving aggressively, you can still come out ahead in SF. But Even at half or 1/3 the salary, you'd still come out ahead in many areas across the country, if you have a family of 4. In SF, it's not just the extreme housing costs, but also the 3K-4K/month day care costs (if you can get it), and all the other COL.

How can you save when you’re paying $4k a month in rent?

Make $20K/month in salary, bonuses, and stock awards.

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#56
post #44

FB group for anyone else considering leaving: https://www.facebook.com/groups/373683909882919/ I can tell you that Miami would definitely like you here, even our Mayor cosigns: https://twitter.com/FrancisSuarez/status/1100425644968738822

A group of SV VCs have moved to Miami and are in the process of building a whole neighborhood called "Magic City" dedicated to startups and entrepreneurship. It's an opportunity zone, so they're using their stock investments "tax free". A city like Miami has had a very hard time creating a startup ecosystem, many have tried and failed, but it's a matter of time for it to happen.

Source: https://magiccitydistrict.com/

Note: what you see in the pictures are not built yet

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing and software development are very different though. Any able bodied person can work in a factory. If we're being generous I'd say at most 10% of the population is even capable of writing software. The demand for these people is only going to increase. As we have seen with rising developer salaries, the scarcity of the skill allows some leverage to the employee that other fields lack. Software developmen…

Don’t get me wrong; I would expect salaries for remote programmers in rural areas to be higher than typical for the area. But the future is not going to be something like hundreds of thousands a year in a town where average of cost of living is like $30-$40k. It’s quite possible I am being too cynical. But people spend all day carefully measuring what we should make to insure the balance isn’t too tilted in our favor…

You're right over the long-term, but all market advantages disappear over the long-term. The fact that in 50 years software development will be a commodity skill that anybody can do from anywhere does nothing to ease a labor shortage today. And the remote worker who can competently ship software on demand doesn't care that his kids won't be able to do the same; he can make bank now and use the excess to set them up for the careers that'll be in high demand tomorrow.

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#58
The only reason I am still in SV is because I am stuck on H1B. I think having a better immigration system is a Red president's best bet to finally spite the largest Blue state. You need to bring in talented engineers from world over and let them flood boise, Reno, Austin, Sarasota and Denver. See the Silicon Valley crumble.

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#59
I'm heavily considering Tallinn for a tech startup -

It's easy to get residence status (IIRC basically requires a ~$60k investment in a business you are starting) and extremely easy to start a business. You get access to the EU labor/trade markets in a low COL city which already has a decent sized tech and entrepreneurship presence. The government is actively courting you and in general seems very easy to interact with and move forward with - reducing the PM/lawyer overhead of operating a medium sized business in other countries. And if you stay there long enough it's not overly complicated to get EU permanent resident status.

Overall, Tallinn beats SV in almost every way except for two - developer talent/concentration (though it's still pretty good) and local capital.

Re: Why entrepreneurs are leaving the Bay Area for their next startup

#60
post #44

FB group for anyone else considering leaving: https://www.facebook.com/groups/373683909882919/ I can tell you that Miami would definitely like you here, even our Mayor cosigns: https://twitter.com/FrancisSuarez/status/1100425644968738822

I would love to start a business in Miami but the COL seems pretty high. I feel like it's probably the best place in the world to start a latin america-focused tech company (social networking, streaming, fintech, etc.) and it seems like a great place to live. Does anybody happen to know what kind of companies the VC's there are focused on - could see pure tech plays being outside of their core competencies and thus unlikely to get funded.
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