It's likely much simpler than that. Stop eating and subsidizing cheap carbohydrates - acquire health.
You say sin, I say disease
41–50 of 57 posts
Re: You say sin, I say disease
#42Re: You say sin, I say disease
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I hope I understand that. However, widespread obesity is a relatively recent problem. I'm not convinced that human bodies somehow started to work in a very different way over the span of just a few decades. The amount and compisition of what we place inside those bodies did change though. Overcoming the urges and impulses would require a certain amount of effort and self-control, but don't other positive changes…
I'm not convinced that human bodies somehow started to work in a very different way over the span of just a few decades. The amount and composition of what we place inside those bodies did change though. Just like in times past, people tend to eat as much as they can, and do as little physical work as they can, in the extreme. It's just that we're all so incredibly wealthy now compared to our ancestors that this is n…
It is probably a big part of the story, but maybe not the whole story. There are examples when abundance of food does not lead to widespread obesity, so the particular types of food being eaten must be of importance.
Kitavans are not particularly active. They have an activity level comparable to a moderately active Swede, the population to which Dr. Lindeberg draws frequent comparisons.
They have abundant food, and shortage is practically unknown.
Their good health is probably not related to genetics, since genetically similar groups in the same region are exquisitely sensitive to the ravages of industrial food. Furthermore, the only Kitavan who moved away from the island to live a modern life is also the only fat Kitavan.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/08/kitavans-wisdo...
Re: You say sin, I say disease
#44I don't find it surprising at all that the rats that feed on the scraps of human food are getting obese - they get the same trans fats, refined carbs and sugars and other stuff that people get. Laboratory animals, again, are fed by humans. Are they fed strictly following the natural diet of fresh food they would eat in the wild? I doubt that - most likely at least some of it is substituted with cheaper option. From m…
> searching for a malicious virus that somehow makes us obese or some other obscure reason is just overcomplicating the issue.
Either there is a malicious virus contributing in some way to obesity, or there is not. Let the scientific evidence speak for itself. If that makes the issue more complicated than we'd like, then so be it.
Re: You say sin, I say disease
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you may be ignoring the drive to eat. Your reductionist view does little to account for how hard it is for people who want to lose weight to do it long-term. The reductionist view certainly can provide a comfortable feeling of superiority, though. If you think the drive is inconsequential and easy to ignore then try and hold your breath until you pass out. Just breath less, right? These drives have ways of ta…
Okay, I have to agree - the fact that I can manipulate my weight at will and either stay at the target weight or adjust it if I want to does give me some feeling of superiority in this particular aspect . And I have learnt a few things on the way - for example, that slight hunger is not a sign that you should rush to the fridge. That a 24 or 36 hours fast will not kill you, but is rather good for you. That if I want…
>That a 24 or 36 hours fast will not kill you, but is rather good for you.
I did a fast of 40hours once, I thought I was going to pass out. I grew weak, struggled to stay upright through dizziness and seriously felt very ill. I've often gone a day without food (not always by choice) but I'm not planning on fasting any longer than that again.
Re: You say sin, I say disease
#46I don't find it surprising at all that the rats that feed on the scraps of human food are getting obese - they get the same trans fats, refined carbs and sugars and other stuff that people get. Laboratory animals, again, are fed by humans. Are they fed strictly following the natural diet of fresh food they would eat in the wild? I doubt that - most likely at least some of it is substituted with cheaper option. From m…
> searching for a malicious virus that somehow makes us obese or some other obscure reason is just overcomplicating the issue. Either there is a malicious virus contributing in some way to obesity, or there is not. Let the scientific evidence speak for itself. If that makes the issue more complicated than we'd like, then so be it.
>Either there is a malicious virus contributing in some way to obesity
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Adenovirus_se...
I know it's Wikipedia, but the information there suggests that there is a strong relationship [not necessarily causal] between carriers fo the virus and obesity. But, one can still be obese without it and one can be a carrier and not be obese so I don't think this obviates the obese carrier from responsibility even if a direct causal relationship is established.
Re: You say sin, I say disease
#47>However, it would be unpleasantly ironic if it turns out that our culture's moralizing fixation on the association between obesity and sinfullness — painting it as the just the reward of sloth and gluttony, and only legitimately to be avoided by drudgery and self-denial — has allowed a dangerous viral pandemic to rage undetected for decades.
If those without the virus can't become obese through sloth and gluttony he has a point, otherwise he seems hell-bent on tying those with "traditionalist religious views" [I think he means Christian but doesn't want to appear to be just be reacting against his local culture] to the problem of obesity for no reason other than that they consider sloth and gluttony wrong.
Do atheists, humanists, neo-wiccans, animists, etc., consider sloth and gluttony to be virtuous? I know corpulence has often been considered positive but that is not the same as sloth or gluttony.
Re: You say sin, I say disease
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where in "Modern Europe" have they banned all the unhealthy foods?
Denmark and Switzerland have both banned Transfats. Also, various bans exist for genetically modified foods in Europe. Sweeteners such as stevia, meats with bovine growth hormone, etc. I'm surprised people are unaware of this. My apologies for not citing it in my comment, I thought everyone was aware of this, and so I found the original implication that banning foods leads to totalitarianism absurd.
AFAIK stevia isn't genetically modified at all. It's banned because of the sugar lobby.
Re: You say sin, I say disease
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
> searching for a malicious virus that somehow makes us obese or some other obscure reason is just overcomplicating the issue. Either there is a malicious virus contributing in some way to obesity, or there is not. Let the scientific evidence speak for itself. If that makes the issue more complicated than we'd like, then so be it.
>Either there is a malicious virus contributing in some way to obesity https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Adenovirus_se... I know it's Wikipedia, but the information there suggests that there is a strong relationship [not necessarily causal] between carriers fo the virus and obesity. But, one can still be obese without it and one can be a carrier and not be obese so I don't think this obviates the obese c…
Of course not. If I smoke, for example, I have a higher chance of getting cancer than if don't smoke; if I eat pizza all the day long instead of salad and don't exercise, I have a higher chance of becoming obese.
However I may also never touch a cigarette in my life and still get cancer. I may exercise and eat reasonably well and still be overweight. Some people can smoke 20 a day all their lives and live to a healthy old age; some can eat like pigs and have a size 10 figure.
My gut feeling (pardon the pun) is that obesity is mostly caused by the junk that goes into modern food, combined with a more sedentary lifestyle; but that's not to say there aren't a whole lot of other factors - genetics, environment, viral etc - that play a role.
Re: You say sin, I say disease
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When you can point to an ought that logically follows from an is, that'll be the most important day in anyone's lives. There is a train heading for you, therefore you ought to get off the tracks. (EDIT: And yes, I do recognize Hume's fork when I see it. I'm just glad I'm not sitting at a circular table with him, fighting over who gets to use it.)
Again, it's safer to separate my actual life from my philosophy: why get off the track? Death is inevitable, and not inherently worse than life. Hume's a tricky bastard, and with enough Nietzsche to back him up, depressingly formidable. So I arbitrarily give value to certain things in pursuit of a pleasant system of beliefs and a nice-feeling way of going about life.
Add 'if you want to continue living' to the end, then, and you can avoid worrying about such things while keeping the same example.