Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 83 posts

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#71

Post by btilly »

darksaints wrote: post #53
Shivetya wrote: post #40

Isn't this the point of politicians pressuring corporations? I remember back, way back, when Apple was caught off guard and "appropriately" stepped up with lobbying and political contributions. It is hard for me to find fault with any company which lobbies the government because they have no choice. If they don't play the game someone else will and use their influence to get the power of government applied to their c…

I'm of the opinion that the effect of lobbying is tiny. Lobbyists are communicating with representatives about policy...something that every organization should attempt to do. Politicians rely on lobbyists to inform their decisions. The real culprit in the pervasive corporatism in the US is campaign finance. Quid pro quo is the name of the game here. Politicians know that if corporations aren't helping them get elect…

It looks to me like your opinion is based on drawing an artificial distinction between "real lobbyists" and what real lobbyists actually do.

It is the job of lobbyists to get politicians to do what the lobbyist wants. Campaign finance, job offers, favors for people the politician cares about, status symbols such as honorary degrees - all are normal stock in trade for a lobbyist.

That said, I agree. Lobbyists who do none of the things that are known to be effective, are ineffective and do not have an impact. They also do not deliver results and do not tend to get happy clients.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#72

Post by vicpara »

aetherson wrote: post #70
snarfy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they think it's important for their company to lobby. But in your world, they can't. Sure they can, just not under the (limited liability) umbrella of the corporation. Do you believe the lobbying done by Amazon is approved of by all Amazon employees? Do you want foreign corporations lobbying the government?

What does it mean for people not to be able to do things "under the umbrella of the corporation"? Are they allowed to pool their resources or aren't they? If they are, but they have to wink and say, "But this money that stems from the company is funneled through a different resource-pooling group," how do you imagine the world is different? Industry lobbying groups already exist. The fact that not all Amazon employee…

As a citizen, there should be no difference in how my vote is counted when I work for a company, ten or no company. If the company I work for is bankrupt or wealthy that shouldn't matter either. 1 person, 1 vote.

Also, technically, companies also don't really exist. People do. A company, no matter how big should be allowed to fail and die. A human life matters a lot more. Does it? Do we want it to?

Maybe we should start optimising our policies not with respect to GDP or economical growth but with respect to the actual living: humans, animals, fish and even plants.

If we do want companies to vote then let's make it official. But then there are unlimited number of companies we can create.

Let's vote with money than and stop being hypocrites. 1 person with 1M trumps 900k with $1. Whomever has $$$ can vote be it a company, person or dog that inherited the money. At least in this way we know how it works and change our behaviour accordingly but at least let's be honest about it.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#73

Post by andrewla »

indigochill wrote: post #64
andrewla wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the system is driven by donations is true, but misleading -- the maximum amount that any person or PAC can donate to a candidate is $5000. Only by acting collectively can this sort of thing make a difference. Large organizations like the National Rifle Associations have influence not because they can bribe politicians through donations, but because their large membership means that an endorsement or condemnation…

>the maximum amount that any person or PAC can donate to a candidate is $5000. Where are these contribution numbers coming from, then? http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=B

My understanding is that those numbers include any donations from individuals who work for Amazon in any capacity.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#74

Post by vicpara »

jimmy1 wrote: post #31

I think sometimes people assume that x amount of lobbying dollars = y influence, but it's not a linear equation at all. At the end of the day, it is still people you are dealing with, and sometimes people can happily take your money, make you believe they are going to do what they said, and then not do it. Source: family members are lobbyists.

The nice thing about lobbying is that you only need to spend just the minimum amount that tips the balance. Just like Trump used money and what not in his elections to win just enough votes, where it actually mattered :).

Another cool thing about lobbying is that you can explore the landscape and find the weakest link that gets you what you want. You choose your own target at your own pace and time. Unlike the democratic process that happens only now and then.

Additionally, you can apply pressure in one or multiple points.

Whoever is lobbying not only has resources as in $$$ but also has a bit more time to wait. People die, companies survive for decades or even centuries. You only need to get things 'right' once and then you are set for life.

If it wouldn't work, nobody would use it.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#75

Post by andrewla »

btilly wrote: post #71
darksaints wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opinion that the effect of lobbying is tiny. Lobbyists are communicating with representatives about policy...something that every organization should attempt to do. Politicians rely on lobbyists to inform their decisions. The real culprit in the pervasive corporatism in the US is campaign finance. Quid pro quo is the name of the game here. Politicians know that if corporations aren't helping them get elect…

It looks to me like your opinion is based on drawing an artificial distinction between "real lobbyists" and what real lobbyists actually do . It is the job of lobbyists to get politicians to do what the lobbyist wants. Campaign finance, job offers, favors for people the politician cares about, status symbols such as honorary degrees - all are normal stock in trade for a lobbyist. That said, I agree. Lobbyists who do…

Lobbying has a real and narrow legal definition, and it does not include the other things you list there. It sounds like you're agreeing with GP and that you don't think that lobbying is that effective.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#76

Post by afarrell »

dhimes wrote: post #27
afarrell wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lobbying in some form is explicitly protected by the 1st amendment. The question is: If you form a contract for someone else to petition for a redress of greivances on you behalf, is that contract void?

That's what makes it an interesting problem. How can we reduce the influence on government that money allows? I think all meetings should be public, with publicly available transcripts and/or recordings. They are free to meet, but not in private.

> all meetings should be public

What if someone goes to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting in Arlington, Virginia? What if that meeting happens to have some minor official from OSHA in attendance? What if people go from the meeting to a local bagel shop?

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#77

Post by atom-morgan »

jeletonskelly wrote: post #48
justaguyhere wrote: post #19

I honestly don't know who is worse these days - wall street firms or big tech companies. These (Google, Amazon ... ) were the same companies that we looked up to, just a few years ago. How much things can change in such a short time :(

I, for one, still look up to them. I don't completely understand where the negative views started, but I suspect it was with Facebook, fake news, and the election or maybe the Amazon HQ2 disaster. Now, for some reason, they are being demonized for being large and participating in a system that has existed for centuries. They got large because they built things people wanted. What's wrong with that? I just don't get i…

> They got large because they built things people wanted.

True, to an extent. They could become even bigger because city governments were openly willing to give them billions in tax breaks.

Small businesses don't get benefits like this from the government. Nobody should.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#78

Post by btilly »

andrewla wrote: post #75
btilly wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks to me like your opinion is based on drawing an artificial distinction between "real lobbyists" and what real lobbyists actually do . It is the job of lobbyists to get politicians to do what the lobbyist wants. Campaign finance, job offers, favors for people the politician cares about, status symbols such as honorary degrees - all are normal stock in trade for a lobbyist. That said, I agree. Lobbyists who do…

Lobbying has a real and narrow legal definition, and it does not include the other things you list there. It sounds like you're agreeing with GP and that you don't think that lobbying is that effective.

Given sites like https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/lobby_contribs.php that document the campaign contributions of lobbyists, I'm going to want a reference to the legal definition of lobbying that excludes campaign contributions.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#79

Post by eeZah7Ux »

mattferderer wrote: post #38
noobermin wrote: post #9

Remember when internet companies were supposed to be disrupting the system, not co-opting it and making regulatory capture favor themselves?

Lobbying itself isn't bad & is needed to help disrupt things. Politicians require lobbyists & experts to explain different sides to them.

"different sides"? Are you hinting that a group of billionaire-owned megacorporations balance each other out and represent the interest of the average citiezen?

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#80

Post by stone-monkey »

YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #59
stone-monkey wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they flexed their employer muscles, that would only affect local officials. Why would a republican senator from Kansas care if they're going to cut jobs in Virginia?

because he doesn't want local families protesting in front of his local residence embarrassing him in front of all his other big shot neighbors?

I'm sure politicians get as embarrassed as the next person by public shaming, but forgive me if I'm inclined to believe they won't act much on complaints by non constituents.
Post reply on HN