Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 83 posts

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#61

Post by indigochill »

jeletonskelly wrote: post #48
justaguyhere wrote: post #19

I honestly don't know who is worse these days - wall street firms or big tech companies. These (Google, Amazon ... ) were the same companies that we looked up to, just a few years ago. How much things can change in such a short time :(

I, for one, still look up to them. I don't completely understand where the negative views started, but I suspect it was with Facebook, fake news, and the election or maybe the Amazon HQ2 disaster. Now, for some reason, they are being demonized for being large and participating in a system that has existed for centuries. They got large because they built things people wanted. What's wrong with that? I just don't get i…

>They got large because they built things people wanted.

Yes, but since then they've all made some public missteps. Facebook has repeatedly abused user data, Amazon routinely sells counterfeits, Google leverages user data for advertising and has a questionable track record with China, etc... People see that and feel like they want to switch to some competitor, but they don't know of one because Google, Facebook, and Amazon are the dominant parts of their experience of the internet.

What I think most people don't realize is that the world does not in fact revolve around Google/Amazon/Facebook and despite their market share, they don't actually have monopolies in their industries. *diaspora is a thing. So is Duck Duck Go. So is Ali Express (or, you know, just buying stuff at a brick and mortar store) And so on.

In the context of this ignorance, I think it becomes easier to sympathize with some pitchfork rattling.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#62

Post by justaguyhere »

jeletonskelly wrote: post #48
justaguyhere wrote: post #19

I honestly don't know who is worse these days - wall street firms or big tech companies. These (Google, Amazon ... ) were the same companies that we looked up to, just a few years ago. How much things can change in such a short time :(

I, for one, still look up to them. I don't completely understand where the negative views started, but I suspect it was with Facebook, fake news, and the election or maybe the Amazon HQ2 disaster. Now, for some reason, they are being demonized for being large and participating in a system that has existed for centuries. They got large because they built things people wanted. What's wrong with that? I just don't get i…

I just don't get it

There have always been powerful business entities in history and there will always be - they could be banks, oil companies, rail companies etc. The difference between these companies and tech companies is this - tech companies are extraordinarily powerful and pervasive. It is very, very difficult to avoid using Google for example. Even if I stopped using all Google products today, I still have to email people who are using gmail. I don't use Facebook, but I am pretty sure they have tons of info on me, because of shadow profiles. And so on.

"Big tech" as you call them, they have unbelievable amount of power over our lives than other "big" whatever. That is why people are worried, and rightfully so.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#63

Post by techsupporter »

jeletonskelly wrote: post #48
justaguyhere wrote: post #19

I honestly don't know who is worse these days - wall street firms or big tech companies. These (Google, Amazon ... ) were the same companies that we looked up to, just a few years ago. How much things can change in such a short time :(

I, for one, still look up to them. I don't completely understand where the negative views started, but I suspect it was with Facebook, fake news, and the election or maybe the Amazon HQ2 disaster. Now, for some reason, they are being demonized for being large and participating in a system that has existed for centuries. They got large because they built things people wanted. What's wrong with that? I just don't get i…

> Now, for some reason, they are being demonized for being large and participating in a system that has existed for centuries.

I think for a lot of people, myself included, it's because we weren't supposed to just "participate" in that system. We meant to improve it, to make it more fair, and more useful for all people. To improve lives and do no evil, as it were.

Instead, we've wound up with the exact same robber barons of old. This time, instead of trains or oil or telegraph poles, we've created behemoths that actively try to spy on, categorize, and monetize people to extents never before dreamed possible.

Worse, lots of the people around us--people who claimed to be interested in the same things we were--are now demonizing us for our long-held views, "privacy obviously isn't that important because people so willingly give it up just read the terms of service" and "steady jobs with benefits stifle innovation being paid by the piece as a transient worker with no employment protections is the new hotness because people so willingly sign up for it just read the terms of service."

Lots of people lined up to take hatchets to Microsoft twenty years ago but now Google and Amazon get away with much worse far more often and they're deemed untouchable. That baffles me. I can't "look up" to those companies who came after and trampled over the imperfect vision of people who came before, especially when they started out trying to build the vision we thought we said we wanted but then turned to the path that makes the most money in bulk even though it compromises almost all of those beliefs.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#64

Post by indigochill »

andrewla wrote: post #33
badpun wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My limited (understanding) of the state of things in the US is that the lobbying itself is a problem mostly because the whole political system is driven by donations, which of course disproportionally come from the rich actors. Here in Poland the parties are sponsored by the state itself and donations are a very limited factor, which makes the lobbying not very effective and hence not a real factor.

That the system is driven by donations is true, but misleading -- the maximum amount that any person or PAC can donate to a candidate is $5000. Only by acting collectively can this sort of thing make a difference. Large organizations like the National Rifle Associations have influence not because they can bribe politicians through donations, but because their large membership means that an endorsement or condemnation…

>the maximum amount that any person or PAC can donate to a candidate is $5000.

Where are these contribution numbers coming from, then? http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=B

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#65

Post by rchaud »

jeletonskelly wrote: post #48
justaguyhere wrote: post #19

I honestly don't know who is worse these days - wall street firms or big tech companies. These (Google, Amazon ... ) were the same companies that we looked up to, just a few years ago. How much things can change in such a short time :(

I, for one, still look up to them. I don't completely understand where the negative views started, but I suspect it was with Facebook, fake news, and the election or maybe the Amazon HQ2 disaster. Now, for some reason, they are being demonized for being large and participating in a system that has existed for centuries. They got large because they built things people wanted. What's wrong with that? I just don't get i…

You seem to hvae a very black and white view of how history unfolds. There isn't a single moment when the tide turns (and I don't believe it has). It's the result of small things adding up over time.

Since the late '90s, states and local communities have argued that Amazon's ability to skirt charging local sales tax in most states gave it an unfair price advantage. It took years for the laws to close that loophole because we didn't previously have a major business that could sell exclusively online without opening in-state stores.

> They got large because they built things people wanted.

Again, this is a selective reading of history. Amazon was making losses consistently until about 2004, 10 years into its life. It was kept afloat by investors and lenders, not customers.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#67

Post by rchaud »

mattferderer wrote: post #38
noobermin wrote: post #9

Remember when internet companies were supposed to be disrupting the system, not co-opting it and making regulatory capture favor themselves?

Lobbying itself isn't bad & is needed to help disrupt things. Politicians require lobbyists & experts to explain different sides to them.

You make it sound like they're lining up to have a moment with their local representative like the rest of us. As if there's not thousands in campaign contributions and in-kind gifts hinging on the politician swinging their way.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#68

Post by rchaud »

paxy wrote: post #11

If you think they are lobbying now, wait till their Virginia HQ opens up.

Except we're unlikely to ever hear about it, as they'll be lobbying for Pentagon contracts, aka the government teat. Much more profitable than shilling knockoff Chinese trinkets with a site full of fake reviews.

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#69

Post by [deleted] »

rchaud wrote: post #68
paxy wrote: post #11

If you think they are lobbying now, wait till their Virginia HQ opens up.

Except we're unlikely to ever hear about it, as they'll be lobbying for Pentagon contracts, aka the government teat. Much more profitable than shilling knockoff Chinese trinkets with a site full of fake reviews.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year

#70

Post by aetherson »

snarfy wrote: post #34
aetherson wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations are made up of people. How would you go about restricting corporate speech without restricting people's speech? And, more so, why would you want to? Scenario A: 1,000 people organize into a company. One of those people is the Founder/CEO who takes the vast majority of the money out of the company into his personal wealth. It is uncontested that this natural person can then use his wealth to buy ads/throw…

> But they think it's important for their company to lobby. But in your world, they can't. Sure they can, just not under the (limited liability) umbrella of the corporation. Do you believe the lobbying done by Amazon is approved of by all Amazon employees? Do you want foreign corporations lobbying the government?

What does it mean for people not to be able to do things "under the umbrella of the corporation"? Are they allowed to pool their resources or aren't they? If they are, but they have to wink and say, "But this money that stems from the company is funneled through a different resource-pooling group," how do you imagine the world is different? Industry lobbying groups already exist.

The fact that not all Amazon employees approve of the lobbying is irrelevant. Not all union members approve of all the union lobbying done. Should we silence unions? Not all members of a political party approve of all the positions taken by political parties. Should we silence political parties? When people join up into groups, they trade increased power for the fact that the group will not perfectly reflect their preferences.

It surely is the case that lots of people who work at Amazon want Amazon to continue to lobby for things that will help Amazon become more valuable, thus making it less likely they will be laid off and making their equity more valuable.

In what way is the world better if Amazon increases Jeff Bezos' salary by $AMOUNT_THEY_SPEND_ON_LOBBYING and then Jeff Bezos spends that money on lobbying for whatever he wants, which surely includes "making Amazon successful"? Even if Amazon rigorously does not direct him to spend that money or audit his efforts?

I'm fine with foreign companies lobbying the government. Why wouldn't I be?

Post reply on HN