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Dumbass Home 2.0. How modern IoT works, how to automate your rented box today

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31–40 of 58 posts

Re: Dumbass Home 2.0. How modern IoT works, how to automate your rented box today

#31
post #16

The only way to win is not to play. It is completely daft to me that all these devices require an Internet connection to function. I will never allow something like that into my house (along with home assistants like Alexa). I have achieved a decent level of automation using simple timer switches (they have ones that adjust on/off times based on your latitude), completely disconnected motion sensing lights, and by si…

Plenty of them don’t require an internet connection. My Philips Hue and Harmony hubs are both on a VLAN which blocks all outbound traffic (save for MDNS reflection across LAN subnets so they can still be discovered from other subnets).

Re: Dumbass Home 2.0. How modern IoT works, how to automate your rented box today

#32
post #4

That cartoon about Siemens and wires etc...it's actually more horrifying than you think. All that industrial control stuff with MODBUS and SCADA and other brain damage: it has even less security than the IoT junk, i.e. none! I worked on a safety critical system in which we designed security and fail safe right from the beginning. Hardwired state machine controllers for things that could explode. The hardware engineer…

> All that industrial control stuff with MODBUS and SCADA and other brain damage: it has even less security than the IoT junk, i.e. none!

Right... because industrial automation networks should never be connected to publicly accessible networks without security in between. PLC's and sensors don't need internet or intranet access so why would you connect them?

The problem is Industrial engineers aren't IT or security experts and that's why we have security issues. Plus they're under constant pressure to get production running and meeting deadlines. Next you'll say "but what about stuxnet! that proved that even air gapping isn't secure enough!" Yup. It also proves that using insecure general purpose operating systems (hint, windows) is stupid as well. But it's cheap and familiar so here we are. The problem isn't with the protocols or hardware, it's ignorance with a side of laziness topped with corner cutting.

Also many industrial protocols don't run over tcp but instead use raw ethernet packets and have dedicated protocol processors running to keep latencies down to microsecond levels for flipping IO bits. An example is Beckhoff's EtherCAT. So security does not apply to those networks and would be difficult to implement.

> Bad as home automation is, it is, incredibly, better than your run of the mill industrial automation!

Apples to oranges.

We recently bought a machine which has an internal automation network between a Siemens 840d, a Siemens safety PLC and a DSP controller from Adwin. Real time communications is over Profibus and CANopen. between that machine and the rest of the world sits a humble PC Engines box running a custom FreeBSD image that gives them secure remote access to the machine. I'd trust that more than any home automation built on webshit.

Re: Dumbass Home 2.0. How modern IoT works, how to automate your rented box today

#34
What an entertaining read. I tried it and then gave up on home automation a long time ago. The reason why home automation can't be made 'smart' is because it lacks the ability to create precise situational awareness. Ie, so much of the 'automation' relies on human input. I started on a side project that would use cameras and facial recognition to provide 'eyes' to the home automation system. I planned to use Home Assistant, that way I can keep everything running without an internet connection, but the software was simply not ready. Lots of missing documentation and constant change deterred me. I'm hoping Home Assistant has gotten better over the years.

Re: Dumbass Home 2.0. How modern IoT works, how to automate your rented box today

#37
post #36

i moved house recently. people keep buying me IoT housewarming gifts. i'd rather receive a potato with a telnet chip jammed into it because at least i can turn it into gnocchi.

What is a "telnet chip"? Quick google came up empty.

Re: Dumbass Home 2.0. How modern IoT works, how to automate your rented box today

#39
post #28

Wired vs wireless... With anything securityrelated, it should really be wired. At least cameras. It's very, very easy to just run a simple $2 sniffer (eg an esp8266) that sends de-auth packets and thus kicking devices off the wifi. In our neighborhood, we've had quite a few thefts of skiboxes (the ones that go on top of the car) recently, and several say the security cameras seemed to be unconnected at the time, hint…

That's just not practical for most people. Wiring a house is difficult and/or expensive. It's also not necessarily an applicable argument for z-wave/zigbee (there may be similar attacks, though, I'm not sure). There's also "hybrid" options for usecases like the "unconnected camera": a wireless camera that has local storage, for example.

> That's just not practical for most people. Wiring a house is difficult and/or expensive.

That's because we do it stupidly. Why are we running wires in walls where we can't ever get at them? Trim and quarter round could double as conduit.

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