This looks so unlike Apple. Almost childish.
Addressing Spotify’s Claims
261–270 of 688 posts
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#262From apples blog "And developers, from first-time engineers to larger companies, can rest assured that everyone is playing by the same set of rules." This is the key issue spotify has, Apple music is not playing by the same rules, in fact their monopoly on the app store its undermining Spotifies fair competition. Its undermining it becuase Apple Music a direct competitor of Spotify effectivly doesnt pay the 30% Apple…
> Its undermining it becuase Apple Music a direct competitor of Spotify effectivly doesnt pay the 30% Apple tax which makes it hugely cheaper. ...as is the case with every native app? Notes doesn't have to pay the same tax as paid notes apps, for example. The only solution here to establish "fairness" as you want it is to abolish any marketplace fees entirely, and that's pretty nonsensical, given that 15%/30% isn't a…
> while not contributing back to the service or platform which allows them to exist in the first place.
If that's such an unbearable burden, they are free to close it down. I am pretty sure that in no time we would see GetJar-like stores popping up.
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
This entire letter sounded condescending and immature, to be honest. It reminded me of the cheesy Mac vs. PC days from Apple.
Well, those ads were honestly better. They were localized both in their scope and what they claimed to do. Nowadays, every tech company is changing the world, and there is much hullabaloo over everything under the sun when it's just shitty software at the end of the day. Take the opening sentence: "We believe that technology achieves its true potential when we infuse it with human creativity and ingenuity". Who gets…
Spin doctors who can turn around faster than you can say "what?!". Probably high earners, too, given that they could cost their companies dearly with a single single wrong word.
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#264Having dealt with Apple, this letter exposes the infuriating position I sense they have.
I believe they feel entitled to do whatever they want on iOS because they created it. That they have first dibs on any product or service on the platform, and that if they allow you on the platform you should reward them through money (dev fees and revenue cuts) for the privilege they are extending to you on top of the product you paid for (not unlike ISPs who wanted to charge Netflix in addition to their customers). And they don’t particularly care about the impact to their users because they feel their users should be grateful for the UX and quality of their hardware/OS.
They’ve told us we should be thankful for the customers they bring to us as a developer.
It reminds me of rich people who feel like they earned everything they have themselves and don’t realize they depend on the people and ecosystem they exist in.
It’s arrogant and infuriating. Apple somehow seems to have consistently acted this way for decades. And they seem to undervalue the body of software iOS is built on top of and the ecosystem of apps that makes their platform sticky.
They’ve always pushed their own, often walled garden, solutions. And it was annoying but their prerogative... until they gained market manipulating power on the computing platform of the decade.
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#265It's nice to see Apple admitting that they have for a long time, and for the detriment of everyone, fused two very distincts roles.
The first is distributing software, and the second is processing payments.
Incredibly, the first is free for everyone, even if you distribute billions of copies of your app, which doesn't make any sense in a vacuum.
But they allowed themselves to become the only payment processor available on their hardware, while there are a ton of options in the wild, and this payment processor takes a 30% cut. This is roughly ten times what Stripe charges for the exact same service !
If Apple really wanted to allow a fair competition on their hardware, they would provide these two services independently, and allow competition on the payment processing part.
It would mean start charging for app distribution, but that would only make sense anyway, since they endure a cost (however low) on every download.
But of course, it's not what they want (nor what google wants with the App Store). They want to have a monopoly on payment processing, because that's where you can extract as much money as you want.
Which leads to these ubuesque situations where greedy corps #1 fight with greedy corp #2, and in the end, it's the customers that are losing anyway due to jacked up prices on non competing-services.
And people saying that there is the option to switch to Android, well...it's the same payment processing fee ! It's really a wonder none of those two giants are competing on that point to attract developers...
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And Spotify isn't asking to keep 100% of the revenue. Spotify is asking for a choice of letting users pay how they wish. But users can pay how they wish, if Spotify didn't mind the 30%/15% cut. Spotify simply can't direct users to use their website to use an alternative payment system. I think that is a very reasonable policy for an app store, as it protects its users from poorly implemented financial info handling…
> But users can pay how they wish, if Spotify didn't mind the 30%/15% cut. Spotify simply can't direct users to use their website to use an alternative payment system. I think that is a very reasonable policy for an app store, as it protects its users from poorly implemented financial info handling and scams. Give me a break. It doesn’t take 15-30% to implement a secure payment system. This is proven by Apple itself:…
Sure Apple makes money off their share of the payment system. Why shouldn't they? They built the whole thing from scratch, including the phones it runs on.
Also Apple doesn't just support the secure payment system, they also handle distributing the money and providing customer support to the end user and the developer. That isn't free either.
If you don't like the Apple model, there are alternatives.
Apple's argument (which seems compelling if we judge it on the result) is that their model is the best solution for customers and developers.
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#267> At the same time, they distribute the music you love while making ever-smaller contributions to the artists, musicians and songwriters who create it — even going so far as to take these creators to court.
Kind of weird to see Apple attacking another company.
Also Spotify main claim seems to be about their podcast acquisitions and Apple didn't answer that:
> So we announce two podcast acquisitions we are super excited about, and all of a sudden Apple arbitrarily decides to prohibit use of its API to recommend podcasts to users
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#268> Underneath the rhetoric, Spotify’s aim is to make more money off others’ work. And it’s not just the App Store that they’re trying to squeeze — it’s also artists, musicians and songwriters. Uh, I seem to recall Apple being forced to reverse some brazenly greedy policies for their music service when a high-profile artist called them out and withheld content in protest. For Apple to characterize itself as a champion…
> Spotify’s aim is to make more money off others’ work Moreover, that's the pot calling the kettle black. That's the app store in a nutshell -- Apple supplies the marketplace, but is also making a substantial chunk of money off of others’ work.
>Moreover, that's the pot calling the kettle black. That's the app store in a nutshell -- Apple supplies the marketplace, but is also making a substantial chunk of money off of others’ work.
Yes, but on mobile Spotify doesn't even provide the Marketplace -- only part of it (their own app), the other (the mobile OS, platform, payment processing, consumer trust, marketing, etc) is built by Apple and Google.
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly what my local store does. They pay the wholesaler 10 and sell to me for 15.
No, not exactly. You're free to buy from other stores, and suppliers can sell to them. A very important distinction.
You're also free to use Spotify online, on your Desktop, on Android, etc.
You're not forced to have an iPhone.
Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
> With iOS consumers don't have the option of going to another App Store Correct, it's certainly unfair competition but what I'm saying is that it's still not a monopoly, not that it's "fair". When you paid for the iPhone you also paid for the services bundle that you bought as a package. Now if Apple controlled 90+% of the market this would fall under antitrust laws (MS+IE situation all over again). But they only co…
> it's certainly unfair competition but still not a monopoly I agree - which is why I specifically did NOT call it a monopoly. > When you paid for the iPhone you also paid for the services bundle that you bought as a package.... You're still missing my point: > And even Spotify has a choice. They can shaft Apple and become Android only, since Android has 85% of the market. The reason they're not doing it right now I…
> Thus Spotify effectively doesn't have a choice.
I'm not sure I follow this. When I say choice for Spotify I mean Apple or Google. The industry still allows them to get the same service from the other 85% of the market. I interpret that as "choice", having options. When I go to Malls'R'Us to rent a storefront I only have them as a choice. But I can go to another mall without anyone claiming foul about competition.
Having no choice is when you want internet but there's only one provider. Rejecting that provider doesn't mean you get different internet, or worse. You get none.
And to pick up on the mall analogy above, some storefronts cost more than others especially if they bring in more revenue for the store. And the owner of the mall also has full control over this. Is this not an equivalent situation?
I know I now sound unsympathetic to Spotify's situation but after reading (and later validating) some of the claims Apple is making in this article I can't help but feel like Spotify kind of cheated when they published their call for action by leaving some important stuff out. I had my pitchfork out only to realize the truth is a little more nuanced.