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DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

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Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#251

Post by gonehome »

zanny wrote: post #231
gonehome wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love voting by mail, but I don't understand how that's legal since you could just coerce someone that way? Force them to vote by mail, watch them fill out the ballot (or fill it out for them), and mail it in.

Generally all mail in voting systems let you override your vote. If someone coerces you once and you send in another ballot postmarked after the first or go to your polling location in person on election day you can override that vote. You basically need to hold someone hostage or under total surveillance from when the ballot is mailed to when the polls are closed to avoid them just sending in their actual ballot aft…

This is an interesting answer and makes more sense - still possible to do, but harder.

Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#252

Post by tomc1985 »

Surely it doesn't cost $10m to build a secure ballot form. Existing solutions have had so many obvious flaws that it seemed like e-voting companies weren't actually interested in accurately counting votes. They really need 50+ people to make a checkbox form and print the result?

Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#253

Post by adrianmonk »

sverige wrote: post #60

Why does this keep coming up? What is the compelling argument against paper ballots? There is no need for results to be known immediately, so how does making voting an exercise done by computers make anything better, particularly when computers are much more vulnerable to remote interference?

What's wrong with paper as a technology? Nothing. What's wrong with paper as a proposed solution? Education and public perception.

People who work with computers understand their limitations. But the average person on the street doesn't seem to see them the same way. They think computers equal modernization equal reliability. True or not, if you want to voting system to be a political reality, you'd have to change public opinion, and we've spent more than a decade trying to but haven't gotten that done.

Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#255

Post by exolymph »

teawrecks wrote: post #254

Allowing everyone to verify that their vote was counted as they intend is a start, but....I'm not saying it has to use block chain, but for its veracity to actually be openly verifiable, the voting ledger has to be publicly visible.

Votes can't be public. Leads to coercion.

Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#256

Post by jfnixon »

liquidify wrote: post #200
snuxoll wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that electronic voting machines can have accessibility features that paper ballots lack - having a glorified form printer is actually a sound design that lets us gain these benefits without the negatives.

There is no reason an electronic count can't be kept along with the paper ballots.

How does that help? The paper ballots still need to be counted as they are the authoritative source of the final tally. An electronic tally does nothing useful and adds complexity.

Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#257

Post by MrQuincle »

misingnoglic wrote: post #96
dragontamer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Butterfly ballots WERE paper ballots. Give America an idea, and SOMEONE in America will royally screw it up. Its a big country filled with lots of smart people, but also filled with lots of dumb people. DARPA is working to come up with the standard that the whole country should follow. That's good and useful research. Even if it comes out to be the obvious solution (a paper ballot off of a damn printer), there's…

Give America an idea, and SOMEONE will find a way to exploit it

In this case perhaps paper where you don't see anything, but that will trip up the scanner. You only need to have votes declared invalid. Of course, preferably just a random subset of them. You can choose for districts you don't like and distribute that paper there.

Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#258

Post by jfnixon »

Spooky23 wrote: post #113
simongr3dal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate being outright dismissive but it sounds like an expensive html/pdf form with a printer attached. I do agree that the paper trail is a great thing. I'm not fundamentally against electronic voting, but I haven't heard of a system that can really compete with the simplicity and verifiability of the immutablility you get from paper ballots inside ballot boxes being watched over by interested parties on all sides.

Paper ballots are pretty trivial to cheat too, you’re dependent on the honesty of party officials and poll watchers.

That’s why anyone should be permitted to watch the process from start to finish. Heck, videotape the collection box from the moment it is shown to be empty and sealed till the ballots are retrieve. Videotape the counting process. Do all this in the public square, televised and streamed.

Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#259

Post by stuaxo »

dragontamer wrote: post #53
simongr3dal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate being outright dismissive but it sounds like an expensive html/pdf form with a printer attached. I do agree that the paper trail is a great thing. I'm not fundamentally against electronic voting, but I haven't heard of a system that can really compete with the simplicity and verifiability of the immutablility you get from paper ballots inside ballot boxes being watched over by interested parties on all sides.

> I hate being outright dismissive but it sounds like an expensive html/pdf form with a printer attached. And I like it. The simpler the design, the better. Sometimes it takes a billion dollars and a couple of smart researchers to invent the "obvious" solution to a problem. We've got butterfly ballots, confusing electronics-only machines, and a variety of bad standards as the basis of our current voting infrastructur…

Simplicity is hard, it takes thought and often, the refinement of quite a few prototypes.

Re: DARPA Is Building a $10M, Open-Source, Secure Voting System

#260

Post by ajurna »

jfnixon wrote: post #258
Spooky23 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper ballots are pretty trivial to cheat too, you’re dependent on the honesty of party officials and poll watchers.

That’s why anyone should be permitted to watch the process from start to finish. Heck, videotape the collection box from the moment it is shown to be empty and sealed till the ballots are retrieve. Videotape the counting process. Do all this in the public square, televised and streamed.

This happens in Ireland. results are all hand counted with representatives from all parties and public access to watch the counting.

After a vote we get to watch the news go from counting station to station to announce the results.

There are usually a few recounts etc but it rarely takes longer than a day or two and tbh which is more important done right or fast?

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