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Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

nytimes.com

251–260 of 414 posts

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#251
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the people who argue that these networks have an overall negative impact have plenty of examples to draw from - ranging from the last US election, to the genocide in Myanmar, the extremely fine ad targeting it enables perpetuating sociology economical discrimination, etc. People who argue for its value mostly point to the fact that grandma can see pictures of the kids and other pedestrian examples of things tha…

It's not clear at all, you just picked a random example of grandma when the reality is billions of people have and connected to each other and there are many examples of people avoiding censorship, exposing crimes, finding loved ones, getting help, and spreading news that otherwise wouldn't have happened. The real issue is human nature. Social media is just a new medium that facilitates instant (and optionally public…

There is no magic solution to preventing people from being people, but it’s still a good thing to not build systems that allow any entity with an internet connection to find, connect, and share content instantly to anyone and everyone all over the world.

Mark Zuckerberg has long held the belief that a more connected world is a better world - and 10 years ago, I was as optimistic as he was. Today, I know for a fact that connecting my grandpa to people in Russia paid a few hundred dollars a month by activists to spread FUD is a terrible idea.

Yes, email, chat, IMs, etc are also being abused - but they all have a certain amount of friction and properties that put them nowhere near the kind of scales that social networks enable.

You can only have one phone conversation at a time due to the nature of the medium, and when it’s over, it’s over - whereas partaking in a Facebook/Twitter thread will feed you an addictive slow drip of notifications over the next few days. People don’t really get their news (in the formal sense) by phone conversations, so media companies aren’t incentivized to flood you with phone conversations about increasingly controversial topics to keep you engaged to generate ad dollars. Because phone conversations are real time and decentralized, no entity can prevent anyone from saying a certain word or mentioning a certain event for instance, the way social networks can and have.

Email is an interesting one - sure there’s spams and scams, but it’s fairly non instantaneous, and the decentralized aspect means that no single entity can choose what emails people will see. Email users also don’t expect their email server to be injecting content in their email queue, or reordering their emails to try to get them to read things that will generate dollars for them. It has its flaws, but people just don’t feel manipulated by their email as a medium (although of course individual emails can manipulate people) .

Social media is just the perfect storm of tapping into human compulsions, a product controlled by a single company which seeks to derive profit above all else, misaligned free market incentives between platforms, advertisers and consumers, etc. This all makes for formidably harmful forces, and responding to the fact that these social networks have determining roles in genocides with vague platitudes such as “but they enable people to find loved ones and report crimes” comes across as a tad disconnected.

And avoiding censorship? Facebook, Twitter, etc cooperate with governments to enable censorship! If you want to avoid censorship, you are much better served by the broader, open, decentralized internet.

In case it isn’t clear, I’m a huge fan of the internet, email, instant messaging, message boards, and so on. Social networks in their current incarnation though are a very destructive virus for human culture.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is certainly not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. What they want to do is essentially exploit the fact that data is so expensive in so many countries, in order to make Facebook equal 'the internet' there. I understand somewhat why it's working, but still find it kind of depressing that it's being actively cheered on.

"not doing it out of the goodness of their heart" is such an irritating cliche that makes me cringe. FB was founded in 2004 as a crappy for-profit startup. How many for-profit businesses born out of the goodness of the owner's heart? Yet you seem to make it sound like it's FB's fault. > I understand somewhat why it's working, but still find it kind of depressing that it's being actively cheered on. Social network has…

>Condemn FB for their shady tactics, but don't forget the positive effect. Get out of your bubble. Put yourself in regular people's shoes.

What are some of the benefits unique to FB?

>Just because there are bad sides of it doesn't make it a mistake.

Lists, can be used for good or bad. The only way to ensure they're not misused is to minimize or eliminate the data collected. The centralization is problematic, as always.

Edit, formatting :/

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#253
post #143

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

"Zuckerberg's vision of Facebook as a good thing for the world was a lie" - That is such a broad generalization. In the developing world where I live Facebook gives me the opportunity to maintain contact with my family who live on the other side of the world, as I walk the streets of São Paulo, for free. There are hundreds of millions of others like me who keep in contact with their family because of Facebook (and th…

Fair point. To clarify, I’m not saying that Facebook can’t be used for good things. It’s a tool. The “knives can be used to chop vegetables or to kill people” analogy is a cliche at this point, but it’s still true.

What I am calling out as a lie is the premise that Facebook’s guiding principle was “for the greater good” (which was how it was sold to us at the beginning, in sharp contrast to other corporate entities), as opposed to “win at all costs” (which it has demonstrated again and again, from the “move fast and break things” mantra to the infamous Boz memo).

It’s fine if your corporate values are to win at all costs. I mean, it’s how most companies operate in our society. The problem is that they pretended to be something else, something inherently virtuous, and capitalized on this perception to win the early battles for top talent.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#254
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Zuckerberg's vision of Facebook as a good thing for the world was a lie" - That is such a broad generalization. In the developing world where I live Facebook gives me the opportunity to maintain contact with my family who live on the other side of the world, as I walk the streets of São Paulo, for free. There are hundreds of millions of others like me who keep in contact with their family because of Facebook (and th…

> In the developing world where I live Facebook gives me the opportunity to maintain contact with my family who live on the other side of the world, as I walk the streets of São Paulo, for free. Cool. In other developing countries it lead to a massacre.

I feel that human beings are not evolved enough to withstand a connected global consciousness. Weak minds are influenced, and atrocious deeds done.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#255
post #143

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

"Zuckerberg's vision of Facebook as a good thing for the world was a lie" - That is such a broad generalization. In the developing world where I live Facebook gives me the opportunity to maintain contact with my family who live on the other side of the world, as I walk the streets of São Paulo, for free. There are hundreds of millions of others like me who keep in contact with their family because of Facebook (and th…

The fact that your mobile internet is so expensive and such bad quality, and Facebook traffic is prioritized and free, is not a coincidence.

You are trading ease of use and convenience for the next generation's walled garden where Facebook sees and provides everything.

Sure, the impact doesn't feel as such. And supporting Facebook's plan by talking to your relatives on it doesn't seem like a big deal. Neither did it feel like a big deal when the generations before us decided to sacrifice our entire planet for a few decades of economic advantage.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#256
post #145

Why would anyone want to work for Facebook these days? When you are maintaining the largest advertising stream since TV while actively destroying society's discourse, I'm not sure what redeeming qualities it has. I think the most important thing any of us can do is get away from Facebook and move towards pursuits that fix problems, including the ones Facebook helped create.

My wife has been doing taxes for a few people at Facebook (including engineers and PMs) -- many of them make an absurd amount of money. (>$800k / year)

I'm not sure if it's a fiduciary duty of an accountant not to disclose this kind of stuff, but it should be.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#257
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically the fear-mongering about the propaganda campaign you are describing is intended to turn Facebook into an instrument of US government propaganda. Zuckerberg has been resisting that, which is why Facebook is being attacked from all sides at the moment.

I've been saying that Facebook would do these things since around 2008. And now you're here telling me I'm part of some fear mongering campaing orchestrated by the US government. That's beyond absurd.

For the record I didn't infer that from their response. There was no reference to you being part of a fear mongering campaign, unless the comment was edited.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#258
post #168

Facebook is big tobacco. Intelligent people generating profits that knowingly harms society (even if you do get some joy from a cigarette, that doesn't justify working for a tobacco company). I really hope the smart people at Facebook see the obvious parallel, and choose another career. History will judge you.

In a couple decades, we will see a Mad Men style show which illustrates life at the world's largest social media company, as well as the kinds of deals that went down, the kind of people that made them, etc., all to a realistic and historically accurate backdrop which connects real events to the scenes in the show.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#259
post #143

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

"Zuckerberg's vision of Facebook as a good thing for the world was a lie" - That is such a broad generalization. In the developing world where I live Facebook gives me the opportunity to maintain contact with my family who live on the other side of the world, as I walk the streets of São Paulo, for free. There are hundreds of millions of others like me who keep in contact with their family because of Facebook (and th…

> In the developing world where I live Facebook gives me the opportunity to maintain contact with my family who live on the other side of the world, as I walk the streets of São Paulo, for free.

There were, before Facebook, hundreds of apps that did the same thing, and there still are.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#260
post #229

I don't see how they can make money on truly private communications channels. If they aren't gathering data, and they aren't showing ads (who would put up with ads in IM?), where does the money come from? Is it just a way to hold on to users for future monetization?

I think it's actually just a red herring. I think one could better define "private" in this context to mean "between two individuals", with the false implication that they mean "away from advertisers". Facebook has proven itself an exception to Hanlon's Razor by this point, so I'd say its probably deliberate.

Perhaps, but WhatsApp is already (allegedly) "truly private". I've never understood how it makes money.
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