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Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

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Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#231

Post by ContentTho »

ergothus wrote: post #4
reallydude wrote: post #3

Only if they are done intrusively. Nobody cares about the ads on CrossMe, for example...but Jewels Jungle, the interstitials may aggravate a small number.

I have troubles with the concept of a "non-intrusive" ad - If you don't notice it to any degree, it's not doing its job, and if you DO notice it to any degree, it's intrusive and disruptive (to a matching degree) I think you mean "Nobody cares ENOUGH" rather than "Nobody cares", and that's a big distinction.

Where did this myth that if we don’t process things consciously we are not impacted? There is no such thing as a reasonable ad, except a person to person recommendation where no money changes hands.

Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#232

Post by jacobolus »

chrisdsaldivar wrote: post #150
blotter_paper wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don't take the medical establishment as infallible, and I can imagine arguing against these recommendations, but FYI the American Association of Pediatricians recommends against allowing a 20mo the sort of screen time necessary to learn ad-skipping through trial and error[0]: >Among the AAP recommendations: >For children younger than 18 months, avoid use of screen media other than video-chatting. Parents…

Another reason to limit screen time for kids is to prevent developing nearsightedness. Although this is just anecdata, I was talking to my optometrist at my last appointment and he told me he's seen far more kids coming in with myopia than ever in his 30 years of practicing and he attributes it to kids spending too much time on phones and tablets. edit: Here's an article from nature which compiles some research on th…

My understanding of the current consensus among researchers is that nearsightedness is usually caused by (a) not focusing on distant objects enough, and (b) not being outside often enough in very bright light.

There’s no reason to believe that screens are inherently worse for vision than books, knitting, legos, or any other close work. Which is to say, any of these are only a problem to the extent they are crowding out outdoor time.

If you’re worried about it, get your kids out to the playground or walking around the neighborhood or hiking in the woods for a few hours every day.

Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#233

Post by shittyadmin »

viraptor wrote: post #164
shittyadmin wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the classic "shareware demo" model is a good one, have some free stuff to introduce the user and make sure they like the game, then give them a wall and tell them to pay if they want more. It's fair to them and fair to you. It doesn't violate their privacy, it makes sure your customers actually want to be your customers (reducing chargebacks because the game has an issue for someone) and you get paid without…

I actually like a "skill shareware" (my made up name) model in puzzle games. When you have lots of levels, you split them into groups. You can only advance to the next one if you solve all previous ones perfectly, (3 stars / 100% / some other metric) or pay for full unlock. I've never been on the other side, so I don't know how well that converts. But as a customer, I love the idea. "Euclidea" does this for example:…

As a customer it may be great, but this isn't great for the developer in my opinion. Perhaps it's just the way I play, but I will already refuse to advance until I've got a level fully beaten, so I'll basically keep at that until I get bored of your game or beat it fully and you'll never see a penny from me.

Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#234

Post by dahart »

Are the 10%-15% who bail free users, or paying users? Number of free users is only a good metric if you have ads. Without ads, a better metric is needed, like revenue.

The other thing we need is a real alternative. Ads are more or less unanimously not beloved, but bootstrapping revenue and funding are real problems. Worse than losing 10% of your customers is losing 100% of your customers because you can’t afford to stay in business. No matter how much everyone dislikes ads, they aren’t going away until there’s a way to fund your site/org/business.

Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#235

Post by Avamander »

scarface74 wrote: post #159
HlessClaudesman wrote: post #144

I tried to get my young son into original Angry Birds, thinking it would be a nice simple physics lesson for him, but it has become absolutely unnavigateable for his age level. So many pop up special offers for magic birds to solve the level, cut scene product placement, and other in game purchases, that I can't trust those games to not get him lost in a maze of advertising bullcrap. I paid for this game, a kids game…

And it wasn’t that bad before. The difference between the original Angry Birds and Angry Birds Go with all of the in app purchases is stark.

Just like they crapped all over Plants vs. Zombies 1 and 2 Android versions. PvZ1 Android version ran beautifully on a 600MHz ARMv6 Android phone but they updated it, to include ads if I remember correctly. PvZ2 is just microtransactions on top of microtransactions, horrible mangling of the original game.

Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#236

Post by crankylinuxuser »

1000units wrote: post #188
YaxelPerez wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't hand children meth so that they behave, but we do with mobile games.

In fact this is almost exactly what happens with many children being prescribed Adderall.

To counteract your bullshit...

If someone has ADHD, adderall slows them down so they can concentrate. It reduces mind-fog from too much stimulus.

If you don't have ADHD, its like a super cup of coffee, but in pill form.

My doctor was trying to figure out my cognitive issue. And for a time, I was on adderall. It was pretty easy to tell that I didn't have ADHD, since I started getting upper'd. Felt nice, don't get me wrong. But I'll stick with coffee.

Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#238

Post by 12298765 »

penagwin wrote: post #92
yeukhon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My conscious choice NOT to pay premium. Content creators already get $$ for views.

Aren't youtube ads pay per click? In which case adblock doesn't cost the creator money (if you weren't going to click an ad), and their viewer/subscriber count is still normal (important for non-youtube sponsors)

Pretty sure they aren't -- on my PS4 for example, YouTube shows ads just like on PC/mobile, but they're totally unclickable. There's no button for "see more on this ad" or anything.

I know this because it has shown an ad for something that I was interested in buying, and I tried everything to get to the ad and couldn't. Ended up having to Google it on my phone!

Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#239

Post by jeffchien »

XCSme wrote: post #195
braythwayt wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not their target market. Most of these companies make all of their money from "whales," people who play around the clock and spend a significant amount of money per month on in-app purchases and/or subscriptions. They have optimized their experience for finding and landing whales, and at the end of the day, you are probably an irritant to them, walking around complaining about the game while contributing so l…

I think the whales term goes only for spenders, not for dedicated players. There is so much time in a day, that you can not get a lot more from ads from a dedicated player than a regular one, but IAPs are usually infinite.

I think you're both correct. I've seen a spectrum of "whales" that include:

(1) very "casual" players who don't spend that much time, and just want to roll, or to use money as a substitute for game time;

(2) very dedicated players who want to be at the top of some ranking.

Re: Gwern's Law: Ads cost you a tenth of your users

#240

Post by chrisdsaldivar »

jacobolus wrote: post #232
chrisdsaldivar wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason to limit screen time for kids is to prevent developing nearsightedness. Although this is just anecdata, I was talking to my optometrist at my last appointment and he told me he's seen far more kids coming in with myopia than ever in his 30 years of practicing and he attributes it to kids spending too much time on phones and tablets. edit: Here's an article from nature which compiles some research on th…

My understanding of the current consensus among researchers is that nearsightedness is usually caused by (a) not focusing on distant objects enough, and (b) not being outside often enough in very bright light. There’s no reason to believe that screens are inherently worse for vision than books, knitting, legos, or any other close work. Which is to say, any of these are only a problem to the extent they are crowding o…

I’m 24 man I ain’t even thinking about having kids; I’m just putting information out there. Tbf I spent nearly every waking moment of my childhood outside and I’m extremely near sighted. I can’t even see my laptop screen without my glasses.
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