Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 414 posts

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#111

Post by Pharmakon »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #46
ilovecaching wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you ever consider that Zuck has enough money, and that he really believes in making a product to connect people for the greater good and use ads to make it available to everyone?

If someone had told me 15 years ago that Bill Gates would become one the greatest philanthopists of our generation, I would've laughed in their face.

Why? Some of the most venal, greedy, and ruthless people in history made their money then turned to philanthropy to improve their image. I would argue that it was downright predictable, and so would Alfred Nobel. In fact using charity to either improve your public image (as in Gates and many others) is probably only matched by people like Jimmy Saville using charity to give themselves license to continue committing crimes.

What’s surprising to me is that it still works!

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#112

Post by o10449366 »

zecg wrote: post #72
exabrial wrote: post #37

They just spent the last 5 years drilling into their employees a culture where online privacy doesn't exist, I think it's going to be pretty steep turn of the ship. Nevertheless I hope the announcement is not merely lip-service. I'd love to see the same commitment out of Google.

Google+ was good privacy-wise.

In what sense? Google exposed the information of 500,000 Google+ users and tried to conceal it.

"Chief Executive Sundar Pichai was briefed on the plan not to notify users after an internal committee had reached that decision, the people said." [0]

[0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-exposed-user-data-feared...

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#113

Post by stingraycharles »

dunkelheit wrote: post #108
mindgam3 wrote: post #61

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

So, do you read this quote as a very mild-mannered 'fuck you' to the current facebook modus operandi? I obviously know nothing of Chris, but the message doesn't feel that different from the grand but empty proclamations that Zuck spouts in his posts. Also, he has worked there for fourteen years and in the most senior leadership positions, how can he be not complicit?

He might be complicit, but maybe he was trying to change the direction. Those two things should be treated separately.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#114

Post by malvosenior »

arunv wrote: post #106
malvosenior wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Silicon Valley companies are like this. Do you really think Chris Cox was better at feeding people kool-aid than Steve Jobs?

1. Personally, I do. I think Jobs was a magician, but he was famously not the most personable guy. 2. Even if he wasn't, the fact that we're making the comparison reflects how important he was to FB.

Well Jobs was the first that came to mind, but Google, Twitter, Dropbox, Spotify (I know, not Valley)... all have this identical cult like culture where the employees are fully indoctrinated and feel their execs are the best in the world.

Not to be rude, but this has been my universal experience in the tech industry for the past 20+ years.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#115

Post by colecut »

whalesalad wrote: post #109
mindgam3 wrote: post #61

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

I can't believe anyone was unable to see through the bullshit on FB from the very very beginning. Does ANYONE there now, or at any time in the past, have any real belief that what they're doing is connecting the world? It's a money making machine, plain and simple. (Money making machines are not bad, as long as there is never any dog and pony show about being some higher form of existence) I think that the people lea…

I remember using Facebook before it even had ads. So maybe not the very very beginning.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#116

Post by cronix »

thundergolfer wrote: post #57
na85 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's irreconcilable with his actions. Why would a person who believes those things have made the "dumb fucks" quote?

I'm no fan of Zuckerberg, but he said that quote over a decade ago, and people can change their beliefs and values.

All of his fairly recent congressional "testimony" fills in the gaps quite nicely. He might not have used identical curse words, but, to me, the same attitude shown through quite brightly. I really don't see a change whatsoever.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#117

Post by mindgam3 »

NathanLands wrote: post #99
mindgam3 wrote: post #61

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

Even if Mark Zuckerberg ends up being "wrong" by your definition, why does that mean he lied? It's odd to assume negative intent or that you know what is going on inside other people's heads.

So, there are two ways of looking at Zuckerberg's idealistic positioning of Facebook as a force for good, which is how he pitched to me when I was recruited as a PM there in 2007 (and offered a job which I ultimately declined due to a counter offer, much to the detriment of my current net worth, but that is irrelevant to the current discussion):

1. Either this reflected a sincere belief by Zuck to build a different kind of product/corporate entity governed more by ethics than by money and power, or

2. This utopian positioning was a calculated recruiting strategy to attract the best and brightest recent grads from Stanford and other elite universities, who were extremely attracted by the idea of getting paid six figures to work on a fascinating product without having to sell our soul, like our friends in finance etc.

Or it could be some combination of those two.

My point is that if the underlying motivation were truly to do good, Facebook would have done something differently over the last 5+ years as the capacity for its product to cause harm became abundantly evident.

Instead, at every crisis/opportunity to fix the underlying issues, Facebook chose to brush problems under the rug in the pursuit of growth.

From my perspective, as someone who drank the Facebook kool-aid more than just about anyone in the early days, this represents a painful betrayal. I feel like one of the "dumb fucks" who trusted Zuckerberg's pitch to me back in the day.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#118

Post by o10449366 »

whalesalad wrote: post #109
mindgam3 wrote: post #61

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

I can't believe anyone was unable to see through the bullshit on FB from the very very beginning. Does ANYONE there now, or at any time in the past, have any real belief that what they're doing is connecting the world? It's a money making machine, plain and simple. (Money making machines are not bad, as long as there is never any dog and pony show about being some higher form of existence) I think that the people lea…

It's easy to believe the bullshit when that money machine is funding your six figure salary, free meals, unlimited vacation, recreational and health services, and 401K and Roth. That's why there are engineers at Google right now working on a censorship machine at the directive of the Chinese government. I find it highly doubtful that they would still believe the project is a net good on the world and not motivated by pure greed if they weren't getting paid so well. Similarly at Facebook.

Human morality is cheap and SV has showed that.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#119

Post by ben_jones »

whalesalad wrote: post #109
mindgam3 wrote: post #61

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

I can't believe anyone was unable to see through the bullshit on FB from the very very beginning. Does ANYONE there now, or at any time in the past, have any real belief that what they're doing is connecting the world? It's a money making machine, plain and simple. (Money making machines are not bad, as long as there is never any dog and pony show about being some higher form of existence) I think that the people lea…

Let's be honest it's not looking in the mirror and realizing the paycheck isn't worth it. It's looking in the mirror, then at their bank account balance, then realizing they don't need the paycheck at all.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#120

Post by anigbrowl »

ilovecaching wrote: post #84
mindgam3 wrote: post #61

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

Maybe you are reading between the lines too much. Maybe he really just wants to do something else or spend more time with his family, and if he felt like Facebook was bending things the wrong way he'd say so. His point is more that progress in the right direction requires effort, and that instead of complaining we should take up our banner and work to make the future what we want it to be.

Poe's law in full effect here.
Post reply on HN