Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s • Hacker News Board

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#71

Post by teej » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

jackschultz wrote: post #46

I know these comments are kind of frowned upon on threads talking about an issue like this, but very interesting use of imgur. Effectively a blog post focused on images, which is a very good way of thinking about posts I feel. People love images rather than only words. Has imgur been looking at this? Trying to push it as another big use for its platform?

This format is a known use case and results in some of Imgur’s most interesting content. Imgurian missfilipina feeds her village’s kids for free every Sunday using donations from the Imgur community and shares her stories like so - https://imgur.com/gallery/nFoh5Bn

Human interest stories are the most common posts to use the format but educational stuff like this is definitely seen too.

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#72

Post by JackFr » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

I imagine that Boeing engineers are decent people who want to be able to look at themselves in the mirror and be able to sleep at night. So I find it hard to believe in an active conspiracy, but the propensity for groupthink and self-delusion seems extraordinarily high.

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#73

Post by michaelcampbell » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

Not_a_pizza wrote: post #37

I'm expecting Boeing to do everything in their power to spin news from "they were at fault" to "poor little US company is being attacked by incompetent gang of pilots".

I doubt anyone with the least bit of interest in this story would consider Boeing "[a] little US company".

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#74

Post by mannykannot » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

usaphp wrote: post #13

> Instead, Boeing tried to claim that flight 427 crashed because a pilot had a seizure and depressed the rudder. NTSB investigators dismissed this as ridiculous. > Boeing had no choice but to carry out the changes, but the company never stopped trying to deflect blame. While the investigation was ongoing, it adopted a philosophy of trying to avoid paying out damages to families of crews because this could be legally…

I do not wish to diminish how serious any tampering with the evidence would have been, or of Boeing's more general attitude of dismissing signs that there was a problem with the equipment, but it is not entirely clear from the article that someone from Boeing removed the Colorado Springs PCU spring and end cap. The article says the item had apparently been in the possession of United Airlines and valve designer/manufacturer Parker Bertea before their absence was noticed. The unit is also described as having been heavily damaged in the crash, to the point where several other parts had to be replaced before it was tested.

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#75

Post by qrbLPHiKpiux » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

usaphp wrote: post #13

> Instead, Boeing tried to claim that flight 427 crashed because a pilot had a seizure and depressed the rudder. NTSB investigators dismissed this as ridiculous. > Boeing had no choice but to carry out the changes, but the company never stopped trying to deflect blame. While the investigation was ongoing, it adopted a philosophy of trying to avoid paying out damages to families of crews because this could be legally…

> Should not there be some criminal charges?

With the size of the defense contract they have with the USG?

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#76

Post by btmiller » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

This makes me wonder how we'll view space travel generations from now. Will the descendants of companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin face outrage and calls for criminal charges like Boeing is receiving now?

Risk is inherent in fast modes of transportation, and I think it's very easy for us to ignore the underlying complexity of these feats. Great example: regular air travelers I'm sure are use to the preflight safety announcement run by the cabin crew, but when was the last time you (of the royal variety) actually stopped what you were doing, focused on the briefing, and made a mental note of the plane's safety features?

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#77

Post by sn41 » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #7

Can't you just stop buying airplanes from them? Edit: Do the downvoters also want to throw the executives in jail for life?

No, this is not the right way to look at it. How will you feel when a purported safe drug ends up killing or maiming many? Oh, they could've stopped buying thalidomide?

Shouldn't the management of a burger joint that caused deaths due to food poisoning be punished, just because there's a McDonald's nearby?

There is a breach of trust involved in these cases, where the potential fallout is death. That is very serious.

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#78

Post by thatswrong0 » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

gist wrote: post #32

Here we go. Someone uploads an image from Jan and all the sudden whatever it says must be interpreted as fact in some way and true. [1] We don't know who the poster of this is or even if this is correct: > Images sourced from The Seattle Times, the NTSB, Boeing, Tails Through Time, the Colorado Springs Gazette, The Times of India, Wikipedia, TribLIVE, The Flight 427 Air Disaster Support League, and Forbes. Video clip…

We do know who the poster of this is... http://www.reddit.com/user/Admiral_Cloudberg

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#79

Post by metapsj » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #52

usaphp wrote: post #13

> Instead, Boeing tried to claim that flight 427 crashed because a pilot had a seizure and depressed the rudder. NTSB investigators dismissed this as ridiculous. > Boeing had no choice but to carry out the changes, but the company never stopped trying to deflect blame. While the investigation was ongoing, it adopted a philosophy of trying to avoid paying out damages to families of crews because this could be legally…

Having theories and arguments that are convenient and self serving is not a crime. It's called public relations. For crime to happen there has to be criminal activity.

would it be a stretch to say criminally negligent? or conspiring to obstruct an active investigation? obviously it would require further investigating the back channel of communication within the company and the individuals involved, but in this day and age courts can request company emails and phone records.

Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s

#80

Post by mikeash » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #72

I imagine that Boeing engineers are decent people who want to be able to look at themselves in the mirror and be able to sleep at night. So I find it hard to believe in an active conspiracy, but the propensity for groupthink and self-delusion seems extraordinarily high.

I always quote this, but only because it’s always applicable:

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” - Upton Sinclair

People tend to understand this as saying that people will fight you and feign ignorance. I think it should be taken more literally: a person’s financial position affects their reasoning, and it is literally difficult for them to understand something that will harm them. Not impossible by any means, but when there’s a financial incentive not to understand, it’s far more likely that people just won’t get it.