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How Discord Went Mainstream

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Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#91

Post by zaarn »

aepiepaey wrote: post #83
Shish2k wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programmers and non-programmers have very different ideas of what is "decent". Examples of things non-programmers want in a group chat app: - persistent chat history - mobile client - a sane registration / nickname reservation method Perhaps requests like those don't match your own priorities, but I don't think they're wrong .

> - persistent chat history That's kind of misleading. "Server-side chat history" is more accurate. IRC logs are more persistent. It's possible to go back and check them at any time. If I've read the messages, I know they've been logged, and I know they'll still be there. Discord history, on the other hand, can be deleted from the servers at any time. Often when you go back to double check something that was written…

Only if you run a bouncer or IRC client 24/7, which means you either pay for it or some device in your house will be running all the team. Not great for the average user.

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#92

Post by sneakernets »

gsich wrote: post #81
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People were tired of getting DDoS'ed so they switched away from Skype/Teamspeak. The nice UX makes it easy for everyone to use, and the community aspect is appealing. IRC isn't very easy to use for the common person.

>IRC isn't very easy to use for the common person. A common person can learn. Also the audience (mostly gamers) know how to do stuff with their computers.

In today's mobile world, IRC sucks. I've used IRC for years. Sending files is a pain in the ass due to everyone being behind NATs these days. People can flood servers with garbage. Names can be squatted and trolls can run free. Not so much with Discord.

It also doesn't require a bouncer just so you can go from mobile to PC to tablet without issue.

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#93

Post by zaarn »

LinuxBender wrote: post #59
swiley wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it everyone outside of programmers (and even then) always picks chat services with the worst client software available? IRC had issues but at least the clients were decent.

You can still put a web client with persistent chat history in front of IRC. TheLounge is one example [1] [2] and Convos is another. [3] [4] [1] - https://thelounge.chat/ [2] - https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge [3] - https://convos.by/ [4] - https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos

Setting those up isn't quite trivial for the non-programmer user and they have problems with some IRC servers (it's almost impossible to connect to EFnet via thelounge in my experience and convos had a variety of problems).

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#94

Post by GuB-42 »

elagost wrote: post #64

From the TOS: By uploading, distributing, transmitting or otherwise using Your Content with the Service, you grant to us a perpetual, nonexclusive, transferable, royalty-free, sublicensable, and worldwide license to use, host, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, and display Your Content in connection with operating and providing the Service. The Company doe…

The first part of the TOS is standard, even something as simple as showing a thumbnail of a posted picture (which discord does) requires it.

AutoHotKey have their own relatively active Discord server, so obviously, you can talk about it. What is banned is the use of macros on the Discord client itself.

As for seeing every single message, then yes, certainly. That's how you get the entire conversation history when you first log into a server, search, previews, etc... Discord is not privacy oriented, it is a convenient platform, and great for semi-public conversations. It is not a replacement for Signal, and vice-versa.

Modern communication platforms don't have to be all privacy-oriented. Just like in real life, there are public and private places, with different expectations.

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#95

Post by snek »

GuB-42 wrote: post #94
elagost wrote: post #64

From the TOS: By uploading, distributing, transmitting or otherwise using Your Content with the Service, you grant to us a perpetual, nonexclusive, transferable, royalty-free, sublicensable, and worldwide license to use, host, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, and display Your Content in connection with operating and providing the Service. The Company doe…

The first part of the TOS is standard, even something as simple as showing a thumbnail of a posted picture (which discord does) requires it. AutoHotKey have their own relatively active Discord server, so obviously, you can talk about it. What is banned is the use of macros on the Discord client itself. As for seeing every single message, then yes, certainly. That's how you get the entire conversation history when you…

> Modern communication platforms don't have to be all privacy-oriented. Just like in real life, there are public and private places, with different expectations.

I wish more people understood this. Discord's primary design is large open public spaces; layers of encryption and e2e make no sense.

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#96

Post by elagost »

snek wrote: post #88
jellicle wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would anyone be able to look at your house if they didn't own it? No, the expansive licensing Discord demands here is not required to operate the service.

It absolutely is. You know who else has a license like this? hacker news. ( https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ ) By uploading any User Content you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your Use…

Hacker News is publicly viewable without an account. Totally different.

Discord tricks the user into using it as a private messaging platform. Its main draw, as I understand it, is the IRC channel clones ("Servers"), which can be public or private/invite-only. It's also got no privacy or security options for the direct person-to-person messages, which people use essentially as an SMS/iMessage/WhatsApp replacement. Encrypted chat at scale is hard, but this is a relatively new product and was built in an era where privacy concerns were well known. The benefits of encryption/privacy/security etc (and drawbacks from the lack of it) are clear.

I understand they need to be able to transmit the data, but they also clearly state that the developers of the product can look at your messages in cleartext. That's absolutely not required. How do you think Signal operates?

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#97

Post by snek »

elagost wrote: post #96
snek wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is. You know who else has a license like this? hacker news. ( https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ ) By uploading any User Content you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your Use…

Hacker News is publicly viewable without an account. Totally different. Discord tricks the user into using it as a private messaging platform. Its main draw, as I understand it, is the IRC channel clones ("Servers"), which can be public or private/invite-only. It's also got no privacy or security options for the direct person-to-person messages, which people use essentially as an SMS/iMessage/WhatsApp replacement. En…

>Hacker News is publicly viewable without an account. Totally different.

What does that have to do with needing to acquire rights to redistribute your content?

>Discord tricks the user into using it as a private messaging platform.

Discord doesn't advertise security at all (they do mention keeping your IP secure in some support articles but that isn't advertising)

Beyond that, Discord exists to create big open public spaces. Why would you need encryption in a big open public space.

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#98

Post by defen »

snek wrote: post #88
jellicle wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would anyone be able to look at your house if they didn't own it? No, the expansive licensing Discord demands here is not required to operate the service.

It absolutely is. You know who else has a license like this? hacker news. ( https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ ) By uploading any User Content you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your Use…

So if Y Combinator did not have those terms, I could put my own copyrighted work onto Hacker News and then sue Y Combinator? That doesn't sound right.

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#99

Post by gambler »

GuB-42 wrote: post #94
elagost wrote: post #64

From the TOS: By uploading, distributing, transmitting or otherwise using Your Content with the Service, you grant to us a perpetual, nonexclusive, transferable, royalty-free, sublicensable, and worldwide license to use, host, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, and display Your Content in connection with operating and providing the Service. The Company doe…

The first part of the TOS is standard, even something as simple as showing a thumbnail of a posted picture (which discord does) requires it. AutoHotKey have their own relatively active Discord server, so obviously, you can talk about it. What is banned is the use of macros on the Discord client itself. As for seeing every single message, then yes, certainly. That's how you get the entire conversation history when you…

Well, it's not necessarily either/or. Discord could also include tools for private conversations. A lot of people started using as a replacement for Teamspeak, after all. I don't think it would get nearly as much initial traction if they were just a chat room platform.

Re: How Discord Went Mainstream

#100

Post by [deleted] »

defen wrote: post #98
snek wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is. You know who else has a license like this? hacker news. ( https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ ) By uploading any User Content you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your Use…

So if Y Combinator did not have those terms, I could put my own copyrighted work onto Hacker News and then sue Y Combinator? That doesn't sound right.

[deleted]
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