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Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

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Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#41
post #6

This is Google saying VR as a medium for passive consumption is dead, or at least the market isn't ready yet. There's could still be plenty of potential for interactive media like games though.

> This is Google saying VR as a medium for passive consumption is dead

Not quite. The OP is about 3DOF content where the stereo is baked. You can't move your head around and can't tilt your head.

You can have passive content like a static or living scene that isn't interactive but where you can move your head a bit or explore, and it can be photorealistic (6DOF video, light fields, which Google is also working on).

VR has this property of being the best hardware to consume some kind of contents that don't fully take advantage of it. Like monoscopic 360° videos, stereoscopic 180° video or stereo panoramas. Not quite VR but there is no better way to consume them. I wonder if it sometimes confuse people assessment of VR potential.

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#42

How's the market for VR doing in general? Is it growing or shrinking? Around the time the first Oculus Rift, the HTC Vive, and Microsoft's HoloLens were released some years back seemed to be high water mark of media stories about VR. Since then it seems to be pretty quiet. Is VR dying on the vine?

[deleted]

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#43

How's the market for VR doing in general? Is it growing or shrinking? Around the time the first Oculus Rift, the HTC Vive, and Microsoft's HoloLens were released some years back seemed to be high water mark of media stories about VR. Since then it seems to be pretty quiet. Is VR dying on the vine?

To give a perspective. Former Second Life founder and CEO founded Highfidelity.com to create an open source social VR world platform. 5 years later, and with at least 75M dollars in funding the platform is empty[1], even though it is in Steam, and even hardcore VR creators dont seem eager to use it. They had to pay users to join them for their stress tests. The creators' stories in the forum may be telling about the shortcomings of creating amd using VR regularly[2].

Meanwhile, secondlife's open source clone, opensimulator, has thousands of regions and users online[3] despite being a super buggy platform, with less than $0 in funding.

1. https://highfidelity.com/user_stories?include_actions=concur...

2. https://forums.highfidelity.com/

3. https://opensimworld.com/ (disclaimer:shameless plug)

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#44
post #20

VR is in its infancy for over 30 years now. It is just not really good.

Getting a headset needs to be stupid simple. The Oculus as someone else mentioned rrquires 3 - 4 USB cables. What!? Regular non geeks dont have time for that. It should hook up to a single hub via USB C now that its a thing and do the rest wirelessly not necessarily BlueTooth since that can be unreliable. Whatever Logitech has been doing for their keyboards and mice seems efficient when BlueTooth fails their dongle j…

At the moment inside-out 6DOF tracking isn't millimeter accurate, so we require additional hardware. Oculus uses cameras which is where the USB requirement is from, and Vive requires laser beaming stations (no USB required). Hopefully we can get rid of this extra hardware in the next few iterations.

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#45
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t everyone see more in AR, at least in the near term. Even conservative Apple is was working on AR. The ability to augment the real world has lots of useful benefits.

I don't. I believe in AR but not short-term. I think AR will go into a "winter" soon and will be picked up by the mainstream some years later after key technology challenges are solved. I think AR (glasses) is at where VR was in the nineties. Currently AR has two form factors, phone and glasses. Phone-based AR is gimmicky. It can be fun and can work in some scenarios but it's monoscopic, has a ridiculous field of vie…

> I don't. I believe in AR but not short-term. I think AR will go into a "winter" soon and will be picked up by the mainstream some years later after key technology challenges are solved. I think AR (glasses) is at where VR was in the nineties.

> Currently AR has two form factors, phone and glasses.

> Phone-based AR is gimmicky. It can be fun and can work in some scenarios but it's monoscopic, has a ridiculous field of view, requires holding your phone in the air, and it's not really augmenting reality anyway, it's augmenting a video stream of reality (increased latency, reduced dynamic range, motion blur, etc.).

> Glasses-based AR will be great but currently has fundamental challenges with field of view, latency, optics, and integration of augmentations in the real world (e.g: procedural objects dynamically matching physical obstacles). It requires new inventions in hardware and software to fully realize the vision we have of it.

> On the other hand VR has a clear technological path for the next decade into human-like field of view and visual fidelity. The full enclosure means we can get +200° and fit eye tracking cameras in the headset. Foveated rendering, only render what you actually look at at full res. The advent of ray tracing hardware (easier foveated rendering and non-linear optics). There is no fundamental barrier to get from here to 60 pixels per degree at 200° fov.

I 99.9% agree with this assesment, particularly with respect to the timeline of product maturity/adoption. However, I also agree with Andybak above, that AR & VR applications are complimentary, but largely different. One will not displace the other, but the technologies will merge such that you can seamlessly transition from AR to VR nd back using the same hardware (likely Virtual Retinal Display-based displays) and operating system.

I use VR in my job (evaluating power plant designs), and for that, I need to be immersed in a 3D model as opposed to AR where not being fully immersed would be unnecessarily distracting. On the other hand, after a plant is constructed, AR will be extremely useful (not yet, but eventually) in identifying where the actual design departs from the contractual model, or for training (new people learning how to operate the plant), or for monitoring (seeing overlays of temperature/pressure/planned maintenance data/etc., and so forth).

VR right now is mature in that the quality of display and ease of UI make it useful. It's still a pain to set up and get the models imported. It also still suffers from relatively low resolution. Resolution is still too low to say, emulate a computer monitor (i.e. present a virtual desktop computer monitor and use it at normal seated viewing distance - which requires a minimum 35PPD). For my needs, it's hard to read even large text on virtual signage in VR (you have to get VERY close to the virtual sign to read it). So, unlike the above comment, I think the VR industry has quite a bit of work to get from it's current sub-35PPD to a 60PPD display approaching the limits of human eye resolution.

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#46
post #35
post #6

This is Google saying VR as a medium for passive consumption is dead, or at least the market isn't ready yet. There's could still be plenty of potential for interactive media like games though.

Even if VR was alive beyond all expectations, why would Google have an in-house studio? It just does not seem to be a good fit long term, no matter how you twist it. I can see how Google might want to have some content creation in house to kickstart platform/technology projects, but it would not be intended as a permanent institution no matter the outcome.

Because a vr platform that is successful would be a great place to advertise.

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#47
post #18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching a baseball/soccer/basketball game virtually from the stadium should be a pretty big market (?)

This misses all the physicality of being there while taking away the benefits of varying camera positions chosen for you by the TV coverage. If someone could manage the point cloud reconstruction techniques that would let you watch from positions in the middle of the game while there is no camera, they'd be on to something. Oh, and it's a bad business model - the sports IP owner would want almost all the money.

And such a view would also work on a normal screen, and could follow the play smoothly. A VR view relies on the user moving their head, rather than letting a camera man do it for them.

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#48

How's the market for VR doing in general? Is it growing or shrinking? Around the time the first Oculus Rift, the HTC Vive, and Microsoft's HoloLens were released some years back seemed to be high water mark of media stories about VR. Since then it seems to be pretty quiet. Is VR dying on the vine?

The devices just aren't there yet to be the goto solution for low hanging fruit gaming ecosystems with large existing audiences. If you look at the best players and their equipment, VR isn't a part of what's used competitively.

You can see this with racing or flight simulations, genres that translate perfectly to VR in theory (also in practice if you ignore competing solutions).

People there still buy and recommend monitors or projectors to get an competitive edge, to be able to use other peripheral devices like controllers and indicators (which would be blocked out in VR).

This existing market of peripheral devices and their manufacturers are tightly knit with the core audience, and recommending VR would go against their own business. A VR user wouldn't buy a controller that he can't see.

Augmented Reality with a VR like FOV could be a solution for both, VR manufacturers and existing audiences because it doesn't exclude a large part of the existing market and removes that resistance.

The problem with native VR genres is that you can't show off how it's really like to people who don't own VR headsets. On top of that they compete for attention with existing gaming ecosystems which can be seen as hobbies in their own right, meaning that VR really needs to conquer existing genres one by one, which is difficult if it ignores existing market forces.

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#49

How's the market for VR doing in general? Is it growing or shrinking? Around the time the first Oculus Rift, the HTC Vive, and Microsoft's HoloLens were released some years back seemed to be high water mark of media stories about VR. Since then it seems to be pretty quiet. Is VR dying on the vine?

The focus seems to be on games, but VR has huge potential in the workforce (engineering, medical, perhaps even office work - data mining/etc.). However, utility software companies like Autodesk products have very shoddy and fickle VR support.

I currently have to pay a pricy $2K+ license for a 3rd party software (Revizto) to view Navisworks files in VR. It's worth it for my work, but it amazes me the lack of VR support these companies provide given the huge potential.

VR in my field is still very new. Many engineers (young and old) I show it to have never used it or had just done a demo somewhere and had no idea you could use it for work.

You can do stuff in VR you simply can't do on a 2D screen.

Re: Google is reportedly shutting down its in-house VR film studio

#50

How's the market for VR doing in general? Is it growing or shrinking? Around the time the first Oculus Rift, the HTC Vive, and Microsoft's HoloLens were released some years back seemed to be high water mark of media stories about VR. Since then it seems to be pretty quiet. Is VR dying on the vine?

The market is growing slowly, but it is very small yet. Personally I don't want it to grow too fast just yet, because I need time to develop/strengthen my bootstapped VR 3D editor product before the highly funded competitors enter the market. I am almost afraid that the Oculus Quest will push the growth too fast, despite I am a diehard VR fan.
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