Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#211

Post by KingMachiavelli » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 1:51 AM UTC

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

> last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years);

What does 'last' mean? Any laptop should 'last' 8+ years.

> have a high spec (i9 etc);

I really don't see the point of high-spec laptops for development use. Higher end, high power components just make the batter life worse - reducing the entire point of a mobile device. And you're paying a premium for the mobile version.

A much better option is to have a beefy linux desktop that you perform work on remotely. There is very little reason to locally compile code on a laptop. The economics work much better IMHE... If you have a $2000 budget for instance, you can build a $1300 desktop and buy a $700 laptop which gives you much more power and flexability than buying a single $2000 laptop. So yes, I do think many Google engineers just need a portable terminal to connect to beefy VM's remotely. If you are often working on a mobile internet connection, Mosh works very well for high latency connections.

The $2000 laptop makes sense if you want to game while traveling and/or are using Windows where offloading work to a remote machine is a bit more clunky than just using X11 forwarding and/or tmux over SSH.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#212

Post by lscotte » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 1:52 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #204

kamarg wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three gripes with my Dell XPS13. 1) The docking station is horribly buggy. If I unplug it to take my laptop somewhere and then plug it back in, I have to do a full reboot or none of the USB peripherals on the docking station get power. Monitors, power, ethernet all still work through the docking station after being plugged back in. Dell support took 4hrs of my time installing/uninstalling drivers and firmware updates…

This is all the stuff that puts me off trying (again) to get a Linux Laptop. I just don't want to bother with it! I've (sadly) heard similar reports for Linux on Thinkpads (eg https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/9fos6i/x1_extreme... - and plenty of other reports on other models).

How so? The only operating system mentioned in that post is Windows.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#213

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 2:01 AM UTC

balls187 wrote: post #185

mrdoops wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want a couple things for an engineering laptop: Linux support, good hardware (screen, keyboard, build, trackpad, etc), and enterprise guarantees. XPS sort of does that, but you're still dealing with Dell which has it's own hiccups (variable build quality, archaic sales methods, etc.), also the XPS line isn't quite commercial grade. Thinkpads typically have good Linux support, but sometimes as with these last 6th…

I had assumed people who wanted to run linux were okay with dealing with driver hardware jank, and were more or less comfortable with the tuning and customization required to get the hardware to work as they desired. For those who just wanted a machine that "just worked" Windows based and Apple laptops would suffice, the latter having the power of a unix based OS underneath.

There are a lot of people that would like to run Linux but don't want to deal with hardware problems. That and software compatibility are the biggest pushbacks by far.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#214

Post by bepvte » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 2:03 AM UTC

I really loved the design of the pixelbook, but I just didnt see who would be interested in it. When I buy a 1,000$ machine i dont go for that kind of OS and it just didnt stand out very much. I wish the best to those who worked on these.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#215

Post by mark_l_watson » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 2:06 AM UTC

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

I bought a System76 laptop with a 1070 GPU last fall and so far I love it. Hard to explain but I just feel happy using it and having a GPU for machine learning is a big win.

I have two still serviceable MacOS laptops but I don’t think I will buy any more. But, I love Apple Watch and iPhone - probably be a customer of those products for a long time.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#216

Post by CurrentB » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 2:16 AM UTC

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

As a developer who has repeatedly tried and given up on linux on laptops, a Pixelbook with crostoni has been the first that I have been extremely happy with. Everything I use just works pretty much as it should.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#217

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 2:18 AM UTC

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #211

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

> last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); What does 'last' mean? Any laptop should 'last' 8+ years. > have a high spec (i9 etc); I really don't see the point of high-spec laptops for development use. Higher end, high power components just make the batter life worse - reducing the entire point of a mobile device. And you're paying a premium for the mobile version. A much better option is to have a beefy linux desktop…

Laptops with GPUs tend to be power-hungry and expensive. But the middle ground of a laptop and an external GPU has a good shot at getting even more power per dollar, having sufficient battery life, and still being quite portable.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#218

Post by j88439h84 » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 2:27 AM UTC

curry-castaway wrote: post #144

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't like Dell, three options are Lenovo, Purism, and System76. I'm personally quite happy with my thinkpad.

Do any of these options have a case that feels sturdy? It seems a little silly describing it this way, but one of the reasons I keep coming back to macbooks is the aluminum case. I want good specs, but my lizard brain also wants a laptop which doesn't feel like a flimsy plastic toy.

Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition is a good laptop.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#219

Post by endtime » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

robocat wrote: post #87

Please build me a Linux laptop for software engineering, Google. For engineers only. No software support beyond ensuring the BIOS and the drivers work and are updated. I hate Dell, but I got a Dell XPS 15 because it was the only laptop I knew would: boot Linux reliably; last two Ubuntu LTS upgrades (4 years); have a high spec (i9 etc); and was reasonably priced (Apple tax was 50% higher for worse hardware). Is it imp…

FWIW, I just upgraded my Thinkpad for a newer one at work (Google, running GLinux/Debian). Seems great so far.

Re: Google Hardware makes cuts to laptop and tablet development, cancels products

#220

Post by nl » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 2:38 AM UTC

balls187 wrote: post #185

mrdoops wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want a couple things for an engineering laptop: Linux support, good hardware (screen, keyboard, build, trackpad, etc), and enterprise guarantees. XPS sort of does that, but you're still dealing with Dell which has it's own hiccups (variable build quality, archaic sales methods, etc.), also the XPS line isn't quite commercial grade. Thinkpads typically have good Linux support, but sometimes as with these last 6th…

I had assumed people who wanted to run linux were okay with dealing with driver hardware jank, and were more or less comfortable with the tuning and customization required to get the hardware to work as they desired. For those who just wanted a machine that "just worked" Windows based and Apple laptops would suffice, the latter having the power of a unix based OS underneath.

I had assumed people who wanted to run linux were okay with dealing with driver hardware jank, and were more or less comfortable with the tuning and customization required to get the hardware to work as they desired.

This is absolutely not the case. I can't emphasize it enough.

I don't mind Macs and OSX, but I would like some different options. I like Ubuntu (run it on my desktop) but I refuse to play the driver/customization game.

I want everything to just work.