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Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

polygon.com

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Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#201

Post by smichel17 »

Macuyiko wrote: post #155
gotocake wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every friend I’ve turned onto either game was basically lost for months, then returned to the world like a shipwrecked survivor. It was all long beards and uncut hair, wild eyes and impossible tales. These games are so good they should come with rehab.

I wish these games would still have that effect on me. I mean, I can totally see it happening back when I was 20-25 years old. When I try to start factorio, df, rimworld today, I can see the systems, I can feel the ocd style appeal and feedback loops grabbing me, until I realize after one hour that 1) this is just the same as work, 2) someone else has already optimized the crap out of this, better then I'd ever have…

I feel similarly these days about a lot of "gamey" games. However, I've still found story or environment driven games, where the gameplay is in service of something greater, to be worthwhile. If you haven't played them, I'd recommend:

- Psychonauts for something wacky and hilarious that will leave you satisfied and vaguely wistful that it's over.

- Nier: Automata for something gripping and tragic that will leave you wanting to find your loved ones, give them a hug, and let them know how much you appreciate them.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#202

Post by mikekchar »

avereveard wrote: post #74
chobeat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rimworld is kinda lame if you've played DF. They are not even comparable.

how so? the production chain is almost as deep. the damage model it's close in detail, and it's not terribly broken (whips anyone?) which should count as far as features go. you can actually caravan, explore people and exterminate faction without being restricted into adventure mode. and when you ask a neighbor for something in the caravan, you get what you asked. weather and climate is much more prominent, including…

For the way many people play DF, I think Rimworld is a better game. However, one of the core features of DF is that the world persists and has history. That's why there is no winning condition. Rimworld has a kind of lame winning condition (get off the planet), but it's there for precisely the reason that it doesn't exist in DF: Rimworld is a game with mechanics optimised for good gameplay. DF is a fantasy world simulator where you immerse yourself in the world and do whatever you want.

Again, for a lot of DF players that point is lost. They want to set up their efficient workflows or build their wonderful creations or they want to slaughter wave after wave of goblins. However, DF is set up in a way that the player is not necessarily important to the world. You die and the world just continues. You explore the world as an adventurer. You get killed by a duck. Life goes on. Your fortress falls to a weregopher. Life goes on. You explore the ruins of your fortress, track down the weregopher and get your revenge. That's DF. Rimworld has none of that.

Rimworld is a good game. DF is more like a toy.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#203

Post by mikekchar »

crooked-v wrote: post #11
wyldfire wrote: post #5

I've never played it but it sounds like a compelling game with an in-depth model. I started out playing games on a monochome amber monitor + Hercules graphics. But I still think that going beyond ASCII characters is a nice touch that will make the game easier on the eyes. > in today’s FAQ, the pair said that they’re selling this premium version in part to pay for health care for ailing family members. That's too bad…

The gameplay model is extremely elaborate and compelling, but the UI is wildly inconsistent and vigorously inscrutable, even compared to "every key is a separate command" classics like Nethack.

Not to mention the seemingly millions of bugs and oddities that you have to keep in your mind when you play. Lots of stuff just doesn't work, or works weirdly enough that it's better off avoiding it. Becoming a "good" DF player involves a lot of learning how to avoid those landmines.

I still love it though! There is nothing like it.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#204

Post by leadingthenet »

joppy wrote: post #200
leadingthenet wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How the heck is that simpler than -- git add . -- git commit -m "I did something" -- git push How???

“git show-me-the-code-as-of-last-Wednesday” is not a command that git understands. Of course, you can _do_ this in git, by memorising arcane commands, and you still only get the output on your terminal. The other option is basically using a GUI interface for git. On the other hand, finding the folder for last Wednesday and opening it up is easy.

"git log" is a truly arcane command indeed.

Also, pushing your repo to Github / Gitlab / Bitbucket / (a thousand different free services) and then looking at the commit history visually is incredibly difficult.

Come on people, get a grip.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#205

Post by mikekchar »

Pfhreak wrote: post #50

I've often wondered if DF will ever get an open source version that tries to recreate the same experience but focuses on consistent interface design, performance and multithreading, and ease of extensibility. DF has a huge head start, and two of the most incredibly passionate developers out there, but it's also clear they prioritize expanding the model first and foremost rather than trying to tackle any of the user e…

I think there will eventually be an open source game that captures the same kind of magic that DF has. I don't think it will be DF, though. If the DF source code was ever opened, I think it would be pretty similar to what happens when any classic games opens it's code: nobody touches it for a long time. You need someone passionate about developing the code to keep it going -- and if you are passionate about developing it, you're more likely to write your own.

If only I could stop playing the game long enough to write some code... ;-)

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#206

Post by joppy »

leadingthenet wrote: post #204
joppy wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“git show-me-the-code-as-of-last-Wednesday” is not a command that git understands. Of course, you can _do_ this in git, by memorising arcane commands, and you still only get the output on your terminal. The other option is basically using a GUI interface for git. On the other hand, finding the folder for last Wednesday and opening it up is easy.

"git log" is a truly arcane command indeed. Also, pushing your repo to Github / Gitlab / Bitbucket / (a thousand different free services) and then looking at the commit history visually is incredibly difficult. Come on people, get a grip.

The actual command you need to use is something like “git show HEAD@{2013-02-25}:./file”, which I would count as arcane. And pushing your repo to github and looking at the commit history is using a graphical interface.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#207

Post by pault »

gotocake wrote: post #42
conistonwater wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bring joy Yeah, right. I bet you'll see it in productivity statistics instead. It's as bad as Factorio.

Every friend I’ve turned onto either game was basically lost for months, then returned to the world like a shipwrecked survivor. It was all long beards and uncut hair, wild eyes and impossible tales. These games are so good they should come with rehab.

I picked up DF a few years ago, and shortly after my girlfriend left for a two week trip. I had a bunch of stuff I was supposed to do around the house while she was gone, but I ended up going completely nocturnal and spent the entire two weeks in bed with my laptop. I didn't shower or brush my teeth and I only stopped playing long enough to pick up some takeout once or twice per day. I never finished any of the work I was supposed to do, but I did build a fortress on the side of a volcano with a gravity fed network of lava-powered forges, a defensive labyrinth leading to the front gate with a series of automated lava traps, and a dwarven atom smasher to catch any enemies that made it past the lava. I was working on a powered rail network when I lost most of my population to a series of riots and blood feuds triggered by a shortage of clean socks.

Every once in a while I get tempted to start playing again, but then I remember the look on my girlfriend's face when she came home and found me sitting in a pile of empty pizza boxes wearing nothing but underwear that I hadn't washed in two weeks.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#208

Post by mysterydip »

clucas wrote: post #175
Macuyiko wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish these games would still have that effect on me. I mean, I can totally see it happening back when I was 20-25 years old. When I try to start factorio, df, rimworld today, I can see the systems, I can feel the ocd style appeal and feedback loops grabbing me, until I realize after one hour that 1) this is just the same as work, 2) someone else has already optimized the crap out of this, better then I'd ever have…

I know this feeling - you're climbing up that hill at the very beginning, trying to figure out the mechanics and what the game is about. Then when you finally crest it, you see the whole game set out before you like a beautiful valley... and you realize, "this is going to take hours and days, and I already understand it." You judge the time required vs. the enjoyment that may be gained, and the game loses. And it's s…

I'd recommend roguelikes in general. Run and done in a sitting, and you can't really optimize the same way as the game has hidden/random elements.

Two I'd recommend looking at: FTL and Into the Breach.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#209

Post by stephentmcm »

Derpdiherp wrote: post #27
bradford wrote: post #18

I've played DF a lot. Biggest problem that I had is that it eventually becomes a challenge to manage the framerate. I realize there are ways to fix this that are intertwined with the gameplay, but I'd rather play the game instead of butchering kittens and other things in an effort to keep the game performant. Second issue is with military organization. I never really became confident in my ability to get the squads d…

No the criticisms are still valid. There's still severe frame rate issues under quite a few circumstances. The military thing is more subjective though, it's still a complicated system, but such is the way of DF. As much as I can see why Tarn wants to keep the code closed source, I really wish he'd allow someone to help him with some optimisations.

I'd disagree that the military issues are subjective, as of 0.44.x dwarves still put on a random assortment of what you assign them, normally missing something important like a right gauntlet or a shield.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#210

Post by phaedryx »

wolfgke wrote: post #195
MrFoof wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the longer time Dwarf Fortress supporters, with somewhere around $2500 donated over the past decade or so via PayPal. If I remember correctly, it was around January 2007 when Tarn started accepting donations. I don't play it much, only a week every year or so to see what's new, get lost in the wacky reality of it all, and put it down to tend to other things. I read the communities from time to time. The wa…

> In fact, Dwarf Fortress is what sparked Markus Persson to create Minecraft, which was originally intended to be a voxel version of Dwarf Fortress itself. No, Zach (Zachary) Barth's (of Zachtronics) Infiniminer was what sparked Markus Persson to create Minecraft.

There can be more than one influence. I think both were.
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