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Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

polygon.com

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Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#141

Post by keithnz »

gotocake wrote: post #42
conistonwater wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bring joy Yeah, right. I bet you'll see it in productivity statistics instead. It's as bad as Factorio.

Every friend I’ve turned onto either game was basically lost for months, then returned to the world like a shipwrecked survivor. It was all long beards and uncut hair, wild eyes and impossible tales. These games are so good they should come with rehab.

and the 17 release is out which changes a number of things so I'm playing it again and working out new designs while also thinking to myself "oh no.... oh no.... why am I up at 2am, I have work tomorrow, ok, bed time, right after I just finish this off....3am"

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#142

Post by opencl »

coldacid wrote: post #15
aresant wrote: post #9

Three points of interest: 1) Full developer announcement on their Patreon page -> https://www.patreon.com/posts/25343688 2) They are putting on steam largely because of the USA's shit healthcare system "after Zach's latest cancer scare, we determined that with my healthcare plan's copay etc., I'd be wiped out if I had to undergo the same procedures . . " 3) Cool to see that they are going to use graphics built by two…

Also in the article but buried: 4) Steam/itch.io and Katfox take a cut so if you want to really help out Zach and Tarn you should donate directly @ http://www.bay12games.com/support.html

itch is interesting in that game developers can choose the revenue cut, it defaults to itch getting 10% but can be set to anything from 0% to 100%. Steam is 30% as usual.

Kitfox is taking 20% in exchange for handling marketing and customer support (after the store cut), leaving Zach and Tarn with 72% or 56% for itch and Steam respectively (assuming they use the itch default cut).

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#143

Post by jandrese »

tptacek wrote: post #139
jandrese wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, the graphics aren't nearly as much of a barrier as the interface. If you just install DF and open it up you will be overwhelmed and there's no help system holding your hand. The word "inscrutable" gets tossed around a lot with Dwarf Fortress, because it is the prefect encapsulation of the first time player's experience.

The interface is part of the charm; you get dopamine hits not just for knowing what to do, but also figuring out (after trial and fun^H^H^Herror) how to do the things you're trying to do.

Or you know, even what you are supposed to be doing. The game asks you a whole bunch of questions about how to create the universe that you have no idea about, then it plops you down with a bunch of dwarves in some kind of environment, and you know you're supposed to dig a home and I guess you need to task the Dwarves to do that (they're just wandering around aimlessly), but when you try to give the Dwarves a task they just wander around aimlessly still for no apparent reason.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#144

Post by Impossible »

From the article:

Kitfox said that it has “no access to the source code, and will have no influence on the design, programming, or updates to Dwarf Fortress.”

Interesting approach, they're basically making a commercial client for the DF "server". From what I know of Dwarf Fortress mods, even though tile sets and data definitions are data driven, a lot of the functionality is hard-coded, so many mods\viewers work by reverse engineering and reading or modifying memory at run-time. Indeed looking at the Dwarf Therapist code this seems to be the case still (https://github.com/Dwarf-Therapist/Dwarf-Therapist/blob/mast...).

With a commercial release with Steam Workshop support and no source access for the primary developers does that mean DF will get a proper mod system? Steam is likely to bring in a lot of new users that don't necessarily have the patience to deal with "truths" the existing community has been dealing with for 14 years...

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#145

Post by danso »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #117
bradford wrote: post #18

I've played DF a lot. Biggest problem that I had is that it eventually becomes a challenge to manage the framerate. I realize there are ways to fix this that are intertwined with the gameplay, but I'd rather play the game instead of butchering kittens and other things in an effort to keep the game performant. Second issue is with military organization. I never really became confident in my ability to get the squads d…

> The barrier to entry is still pretty high, and I don't think the announced additions are going to change that. This would be a problem for a new game, especially in Steam's early access program - but at this point DF has a huge "brand", and people know what they're getting into. I think it could even be argued that the difficult UI is part of the experience, as weird as that sounds.

I would buy a copy just to support development and the past fun I’ve had. But I’m likely in the minority.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#146

Post by stcredzero »

sbov wrote: post #133
stcredzero wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you've written at all. Are you in favour of the US healthcare system, or against it? There's this thing called "nuance." In very general terms, I'm for personal liberty and autonomy. However, I also recognize that people don't care about that, when they are hungry or fear bankruptcy and illness. [1] The US healthcare system is broken, in that large numbers of people are left in a state of risk…

I generally agree with you but I'm for a single payer system like Canada. Because eventually, you have to stop looking for the ideal system and pick a good one. This has been talked about since Bill Clinton was president. I run across this all the time with my brother. He's conservative. He's in his 50s. He says, I don't think health care is in a good place, but we can't do X, Y, or Z. It's never what we can do. It's…

When you're in a privileged position its easy to say we must wait for the perfect solution. When you aren't it's easy to rush to a solution.

I've been in both positions. I suspect what we'll wind up with will be a two tier system (kind of what we have now) that covers almost everyone, but this system won't make anyone happy and the debate will continue.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#147

Post by seleniumBubbles »

swfsql wrote: post #121
rexpop wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, look at it this way: Capitalism in healthcare does drive a better consumer experience!

[flagged]

That’s an amazing video, thanks for sharing.

And the comments are actually useful – there’s a pinned link to a New York Times article published in 1910 which explains the argument at the time for cartelizing the industry.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#148

Post by stcredzero »

ncallaway wrote: post #140
stcredzero wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they just don't want to pay for it. This is a perfectly valid reason, but I wouldn't call it encroaching on personal freedom, so I'm curious as to how else you see it affecting liberty? For one thing, why are you so insistent that I'm an opponent of health care reform. (Subjectively speaking, there's this sour stickyness of you assuming things inside my head around that. If you are, please, don't. You would be wastin…

> For one thing, why are you so insistent that I'm an opponent of health care reform I think the assumptions others may have made because you've largely described what you don't want. Do you have suggestions or thoughts for what an effective system is? What is the system that you do want?

I'd like for people on both sides of the aisle to come together and design a system which tries to prioritize both dignified almost-total coverage and individual autonomy. Probably not the answer you were looking for, but thanks for asking the question. I think I've clarified to myself how I'm to vote.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#149

Post by chapium »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #36
bradford wrote: post #18

I've played DF a lot. Biggest problem that I had is that it eventually becomes a challenge to manage the framerate. I realize there are ways to fix this that are intertwined with the gameplay, but I'd rather play the game instead of butchering kittens and other things in an effort to keep the game performant. Second issue is with military organization. I never really became confident in my ability to get the squads d…

Multithread w h e n ??? Also, early embark setup fatigue is real. Setup the stockpiles. Plan the rooms. Have the plans outpace your current productivity and have it take way too long. Do this every time. Once that's over, though, you get to enjoy sorting through droves of migrants, assigning each to the tasks they're most appropriate to or which need the most dwarves right now (the game actually approximates this aut…

By the time you synchronized all that state would there be a performance payoff? My gut tells me the overhead would eat up a lot of the benefits.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#150

Post by danso »

rjbwork wrote: post #17
joshstrange wrote: post #12

I've never been able to get into DF but I would suggest people check out RimWorld. I've heard it described as "Dwarf Fortress is Rimworld for people who hate fun" [0] and people often draw parallels between the two [1]. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/7dm7j8/how_does_r... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/6xeie3/coming_ove...

I love RimWorld, and have hundreds of hours in it, but I'd say it's really more like Babby's First DF game than truly comparable to DF. It just doesn't have the depth, or capability to present a deep challenge forever. It also takes place in a single layer, whereas DF has gobs of layers.

Same. I haven’t played DF nearly as many hours as Rimworld, but I can still grok that DF contains far more surprises and emergent gameplay. That said, Rimworld has proven to me how useful a pleasant GUI can be. Even though the gameplay loops are ultimately very predictable I’m always surprised at how I can get sucked into a session with it’s relaxing rythyms.
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