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Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

timetoplayfair.com

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Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#381

Post by jhasse »

jdietrich wrote: post #288
mediocrejoker wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't developers sell apps in the Android play store?

They can, but that doesn't stop Apple's behaviour from being anti-competitive and illegal under EU law. Apple only control a minority of the smartphone market, but they exert a stranglehold over that share and use that stranglehold to artificially disadvantage competitors.

Do you have an example for a case where the EU fined a company for anti-competitive behaviour where the company did NOT control a majority of the relevant market?

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#382

Post by ppeetteerr »

ric2b wrote: post #310
ppeetteerr wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just looking for this in the App Store review guidelines and I couldn't find it. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

1. "Subscriptions must work on all of the user’s devices where the app is available. Learn more about sharing a subscription across your apps." 2. "You must not directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods must not discourage use of in-app purchase." I think this implies that the subscription must be the s…

> 2. "You must not directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods must not discourage use of in-app purchase."

Right, the app must not say that subscribing outside of the app is cheaper.

Unless there is proof of the contrary, the statements you point to do not imply that a provider cannot charge a different rate on a different platform.

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#383

Post by treis »

jdietrich wrote: post #169
supermatt wrote: post #71

Just as Microsoft were stopped from shipping a browser with their OS, vendors should be prevented from shipping an App Store with their OS. You cant move to another platform without losing access to all your "purchases" - there is no free market. They have monopolies within ecosystems they created. They should be FORCED to have an open platform, with users able to access multiple 3rd party storefronts on multiple pla…

>Just as Microsoft were stopped from shipping a browser with their OS, vendors should be prevented from shipping an App Store with their OS. There's nothing wrong with providing an app store as long as that store offers fair and non-discriminatory terms to all vendors. Charging app developers for the costs of running a store and maintaining an ecosystem is perfectly reasonable; using those charges to stifle competiti…

>There's nothing wrong with providing an app store as long as that store offers fair and non-discriminatory terms to all vendors

Setting aside the store issue for a moment, what you suggest is impossible if Apple is also making apps.

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#384

Post by ric2b »

laumars wrote: post #322
sib wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing: consumers paid (voluntarily) for an iPhone that has the restriction that apps must be bought / acquired / loaded through the App Store . So, yes, they own the device that has this restriction. If they didn't want this device, they could have bought one of the many devices that doesn't, as approximately 75% percent of people do globally.

I've had both Android and iPhones and honestly they're much the same. Google gives you a little more freedom in app development but you lose a lot of privacy. Neither company champions jailbreaking. Ultimately there isn't a single consumer handset out there that has the same principles of "now you own the device it's yours to do with as you like". Consumer tech just doesn't operate that way any more.

Lots of Android phones have unlocked bootloaders and it's easy to sideload apps without rooting/jailbreaking.

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#385

Post by Mindwipe »

pier25 wrote: post #343

As a user, I much prefer the Android model. For example I can buy and browse Kindle or Audible books directly in the app. I don't use Spotify but I imagine it's a similar experience. Apple policies do not really benefit anyone. Kindle iOS users will simply open Safari to buy their books, making their experience worse. Either Apple should really remain objective and not have horses in the App Store race, or follow the…

In all seriousness, when people say "iPads are better tablets because of software compared to Android tablets" I really do raise an eyebrow.

If your use case for a tablet is to read books or comics (which I suspect it is for many people! A lot!), then the iPad is terrible because of this specific limitation, and Android tablets are much easier to use. Shame Google seems hellbent on destroying them - the Pixel C really was a very, very nice comic reading tablet when it wasn't suffering hardware failures.

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#386

Post by pier25 »

sirmike_ wrote: post #296

Its been a super long time since I have looked into developing on the iOS side -- are there restrictions on Safari which would prevent Spotify from going to an all PWA type deployment for iOS and peacing out from the App Store? What would the API for Safari restrictions be to overcome? Thanks in advance.

AFAIK Safari has great support for PWAs these days except for not being able to show a native banner that allows the user to install the PWA on the home screen.

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#387

Post by draw_down »

I am not sure what is meant by "Apple's behavior" on this page, but I am sure that it's not a good sign that Spotify made this.

I'm not disagreeing with them- there is plenty to question about how Apple treats companies who use its platform, even though I'm not sure what their beef is (nor do they go out of their way to tell me). But if things were going well I doubt they would resort to making something like this.

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#388

Post by [deleted] »

volandovengo wrote: post #370
headmelted wrote: post #339

Utterly disagree. The problem isn't the amount of the Apple tax, and it buries the lead to make it about that. The contention here is that applying rules like this arbitrarily in a way that at least appears to favour your own products over your rivals is an abuse of your position. If the commission rules in Spotify's favour (which I would think is likely, given the dim view they've taken of such matters previously),…

For a long time I've been confused about the rules of monopolies. Microsoft got into a lot of trouble when they bundled IE into Windows so much so that the US threatened heavily to break up the company. Fast forward a decade later and apple, google and amazon bundle a crazy amount of unrelated services into their platforms without the regulators raising an eyebrow...

[deleted]

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#389

Post by supermatt »

jhasse wrote: post #359
supermatt wrote: post #71

Just as Microsoft were stopped from shipping a browser with their OS, vendors should be prevented from shipping an App Store with their OS. You cant move to another platform without losing access to all your "purchases" - there is no free market. They have monopolies within ecosystems they created. They should be FORCED to have an open platform, with users able to access multiple 3rd party storefronts on multiple pla…

> Just as Microsoft were stopped from shipping a browser with their OS, vendors should be prevented from shipping an App Store with their OS. Microsoft had a monopoly, Apple doesn't. It's as simple as that.

Apple has an absolute monopoly on its own platform.

They are certainly complying with the laws in this regard, but the reality is that anti-competition laws need to change to deal with companies of this scale and reach.

Re: Spotify to Apple: Time to Play Fair

#390

Post by Jorge1o1 »

bdcravens wrote: post #372
lwhi wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is Apple unfairly leveraging the app store (...) .. yes, for many of the reasons described in Spotify's microsite. They have a monopoly, and they are unfairly favouring their own products. This should be enough to bring anti-trust concerns to the table.

Spotify seems to focus on IAP, but if you purchased Spotify Premium outside of IAP, it works just fine with that app.

But how would you know Spotify Premium even exists if Spotify is prohibited by Apple to make any mention of it?
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