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US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

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251–260 of 344 posts

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#251
post #140

How improbable was two Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200ER flights crashing within five months? Should all Boeing 777-200ER airplanes be grounded? Or all Malaysian Airlines flights? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 By the way it took years to figure out how exactly these crashed.

One of the two planes was downed by a missile, and this was clear from the start. The only question was who was responsible for firing the missile.

Your argument is extremely forced.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just use one of the many water bottle filling stations?

I've never seen many water bottle filling stations at airports. In some of them, such as Hamburg you have to ask at the bar as there are no water fountains.

That's consistent with my first-hand understanding that Germans are culturally opposed to drinking plain water. You'll never be offered tap water at any restaurant or café, and if you ask for Leitungswasser (tap water, literally "plumbing water"), you'll get an eye-roll or disgusted look, partly because that saves you the cost of a bottle of water.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#254
post #248

Personally, I think the least risky/safest approach is for the FAA to follow its normal procedures. Changing them on-the-fly leads to ambiguity up and down the line, which leads to mistakes and gaps. Of course, I don't know for sure what that actually means in this case. But I'd guess if the lobbyist head of the FAA were blocking a grounding recommendation, that would leak in about a millisecond, so I'm guessing the…

I think the FAA needs to do a better job explaining why every other aviation authority in the world seems to be grounding the plane, but they’re not.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#255
From the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association statement released yesterday:

I have been in numerous conversations today with Southwest Vice President of Flight Operations Captain Alan Kasher, who informed me that the MAX aircraft has 17,000 recordable parameters and Southwest has compiled and analyzed a tremendous amount of data from more than 41,000 flights operated by the 34 MAX aircraft on property, and the data supports Southwest's continued confidence in the airworthiness and safety of the MAX.

I have also had conversations with TWU 556 President Lyn Montgomery, who represents Southwest Flight Attendants, AMFA National President Bret Oestreich, SWAPA Safety Committee and SWAPA Government Affairs Committee members, as well as leaders from other Pilot labor unions. I relayed to them that SWAPA is extremely confident that our entire fleet, including the MAX, is safe based on the facts, intelligence, data, and information we presently have. We fully support Southwest Airlines' decision to continue flying the MAX and the FAA's findings to date.

I will continue to put my family, friends, and loved ones on any Southwest flight and the main reason is you, the Pilots of SWAPA. We have lobbied hard for our training to continue to evolve and improve, and due to having the finest union Training and Standards Committee in the industry, that is occurring.

We now have Extended Envelope Training (EET) in addition to our regular annual training and since SWAPA and others have brought awareness to the MCAS issue, we have additional resources to successfully deal with either a legitimate MCAS triggered event or a faulty triggered MCAS event. SWAPA also has pushed hard for Angle of Attack (AOA) sensor displays to be put on all our aircraft and those are now being implemented into the fleet. All of these tools, in addition to SWAPA Pilots having the most experience on 737s in the industry, give me no pause that not only are our aircraft safe, but you are the safest 737 operators in the sky.

https://swaparesources.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/pdf...

via https://www.swapa.org/

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You conveniently forgot to mention that the captain of the flight was highly experienced with 8'000 hours of flight time.

8000 hours on type? Or 8000 hours on safari tourist drops. He was only 28 years old. The sums barely add up, and only then as an exceptional case

I refer to Patrick Smith as my source[1]

The captain of the doomed flight ET302, Yared Getachew, was a graduate of the highly competitive Ethiopian Airlines Aviation Academy, and had more than 8,000 flight hours — a respectable total. “Yared was a great person and a great pilot. Well prepared,” a former Ethiopian Airlines training captain told me.

Doesn't sound as if he acquired his 8000 + hours on a crop duster.

In addition: Your statement that he was 28 doesn't quite jibe with what the NYT has to say about him[2]

By the time he was 29, Yared Getachew was the youngest captain at Ethiopian Airlines. Despite his relative youth, he had spent a decade with the carrier, eventually piloting wide-body jets that crossed continents and oceans.

[1] http://www.askthepilot.com/ethiopian-737max-crash/

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/business/ethiopian-airlin...

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MH nearly went bust due to these two failures. The cause of MH17 was known immediately, and within two hours Ukraine had closed all routes in eastern Ukrainian airspace

all routes in whole UA airspace are closed I believe

It's some years on, and clearly all routes aren't closed - nor were they -- planes still flew into Kiev for example. Overflights too -- TUI are currently overflying western Ukraine on a Phuket-Stockholm routing. Airlines may have routed away from the entire of Ukraine but I don't believe there were any NOTAMs for western ukraine

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#258

Lots of jumping to conclusions going on in this thread, blaming the FAA, lobbyists, and politicians for being in the pocket of Boeing. Nobody knows why this plane crashed. The flight recorders have just been recovered and so far there has been nothing in the news about what was on them. The plane might be to blame. The airline or the pilots might be to blame, and by the way, that airline has a bad safety record. It m…

I have a hard time feeling bad for Boeing in this scenario — playing ball in aviation means assuming a huge amount of risk, and meeting a ridiculously high standard. In return they have a fairly captured market, and a huge amount of political power. Historically that means you ground a plane and take the loss until you figure out what’s going on.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#259
post #190

'But the FAA said that other civil aviation authorities had not "provided data to us that would warrant action".' Pretty sure the data is that two planes crashed in five months in perfect weather conditions, killing everyone on board. Statistically, that's sufficiently improbable that it warrants investigation.

> Pretty sure the data is that two planes crashed in five months in perfect weather conditions Not only that, but the data we have so far from the second crash (ADS-B data showing irregular vertical speed, see https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flightradar24-data-regard... ) is consistent with both accidents having a similar cause. Grounding all airplanes from the same model until preliminary data from the (already r…

If it was a "similar cause", it is absolutely pilot error.

The MCAS system, at fault in the first crash, may be disabled via a cockpit control. In other 737s, moving the stick was sufficient to disengage it. For some reason, this was changed in the Max, and you must use the other control. However, any competent pilot would know every control in the cockpit. The captain of the latest flight to crash allegedly had 8,000+ hours of flight time.

If an aircraft begins behaving incorrectly, the first thing a flight crew should do is disable automation and try and fly it manually. That wasn't done if MCAS caused the crash. This was an emergency that developed over minutes, not seconds, and there's really no excuse.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#260
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they been expained within days of the crash? Last I heard the exact circumstances of 370's crash is still unknown. 17 took several years for the official report to come out.

The plane was shot down on July 17th 2014. The day after several reputable Dutch newspapers (MH17 was a Dutch/Malaysian code share) already reported strong suspicions of the plane having been shot down. One day. Of course the official report took longer, but there was never any suspicion of technical failure (except on Russia Today).

It was obvious on the same day, as Russian media touted the video of falling airliner debris (which they thought was a Ukrainian military cargo plane).
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