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Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

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Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#21
Aww, the perils of letting the market steer compensation for authors. I really enjoyed Neptune's Brood - sorry to se the series cut short by such trivialities as sales numbers.

Completely understandable, obviously.

Very interesting article, thank you for sharing.

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#22
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a market strategy: write off-shots of your long novels as teasers. Make them tasty (as their primary reason is to give the readers a taste for the main piece), make them as close in style as possible to the main work, although you may focus on different aspects in each of them, and lastly - make them convergent (towards something that "happens" to be missing). Let's say shorter stories around some independent…

Sounds like excellent advice. In the Netherlands, we have spaces where you can leave and take books. You could always bind some books yourself (google 'DIY book binding'), or buy a small batch of books, and leave them at such a place. I also remember there are companies that allow you to publish and sell your work, and handle the printing and shipping. I don't remember the exact companies, but that sounds like a good…

lulu.com is such a company (not affiliated but I have friend that have used it).

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#23

I'm writing German science fiction novels as a hobby that are around 700-800 norm pages each and learned the hard way that at least in the German publishing market there are virtually no program places for science fiction, very few agencies accept manuscripts in that genre at all, and publishers rarely accept novels larger than 400 norm pages from a first-time writer. I'm currently sitting on 8 manuscripts - two of t…

Why are you typesetting them if it’s a hobby? Why not just write? I commend you for your dedication to your craft but I presume some readers would please you so have you considered self-publishing, writing short stories or serial publishing, like Scott Alexander did for Unsong with http://unsongbook.com/ or Wildbow did with Worm? https://parahumans.wordpress.com

> Why are you typesetting them if it’s a hobby? Why not just write?

Long answer: Good question. I typeset the print version of the one book I've self-published in LaTeX, because I love books and didn't want to contribute to the abysmal typesetting of KDP and bulk self-publishers.

Converting to LaTeX is not that hard, the problem is that unless you write everything in Markdown or Orgmode in the first place, you'll you have to maintain two sources - one for the ebook and a LaTeX version. I'm using some special word processing software, though, so I cannot write in Markdown.

My biggest conundrum is that of many hobby authors, I presume. I don't like Amazon and don't want to aid them in destroying the print book market. At the same time, for German self-publishers there are not many realistic alternatives to Amazon. So thanks a lot for the links. I am definitely looking for ways to distribute my works (for free) in alternative ways.

Short answer: Yes, in the future I'll probably not typeset my books by hand if I self-publish them. It's too much work. But the decline in typesetting quality caused by self-publishers bothers me a lot. And don't even get me started on book binding, cover design, etc.

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#24
post #15

I really enjoyed reading this. I like Stross' nonfiction work and wasn't aware that he wrote sci-fi, which I will now have to check out. A couple things to add, as a writer and publisher: * There are all kinds of tools to help writers get going. I have twice used NaNoWriMo ( https://www.nanowrimo.org ) to force myself to get fiction and nonfiction ideas from outline to rough draft. I also found the writing program Sc…

”Short science fiction is unsurprisingly far easier to write but difficult to find a market for.”

I strongly disagree with this statement on both counts. Short fiction is not easier to write than long fiction, especially in science fiction where an established setting change from modern defaults must occur. There is less space to explore a thoroughly designed world and often the author is forced to pick and choose for purposes of the plot. It’s not harder either; the challenges between the mediums are often quite different and shouldn’t be compared.

Secondly, it is much easier imo to publish short fiction than long fiction, self publishing aside. There are dozens, maybe even over a hundred of pro and semi-pro short story markets(at least in the us market). The biggest award winning magazines still compete with Kickstarter anthologies and semipro zines, alongside markets that normally cater to nonfiction but have occasional fiction like MIT mag. Statistically if your fiction is good enough to publish for money, you will get published eventually. This is much less said for novels, whose publishers must most strongly weigh market forces and for a while and would deny good quality work because the publishing company didn’t believe it would sell (see: the dreamblood duology). There is a significant investment in the publishing of novels traditionally compared to the publishing of short fiction, and often the most well known long fiction markets do not have open calls (eg. Accepting submissions from anyone).

Of course self publishing is an entirely different game and an author in this space has to often run their work as a business, including advertising and social media to keep and curate a loyal enough fan base to continue buying new work, along with a consistent production of new work to purchase. It’s not necessarily an easier path than traditional publishing, from what I understand.

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#25

Quoting: > In some cases the decline is much steeper—30-40% from episode to episode: I speak from experience. This isn't just theoretical: it's why there won't be a third book in the series beginning with "Saturn's Children" and "Neptune's Brood": they sold okay in the USA, but then I changed US publisher—and the British sales took a 40% dive between book 1 and book 2, so I couldn't fall back on the UK market. > > A…

I am not sure I follow you here - are you saying that when a book is added to a series, it tends to generate new readers for its predecessors? I would guess that, unless the new book significantly enhances the awareness or prestige of the series, it would have little effect on the sales of earlier episodes. Otherwise, regardless of how good it is in its own right, I doubt it is likely to attract readers who have not already read its predecessors.

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you typesetting them if it’s a hobby? Why not just write? I commend you for your dedication to your craft but I presume some readers would please you so have you considered self-publishing, writing short stories or serial publishing, like Scott Alexander did for Unsong with http://unsongbook.com/ or Wildbow did with Worm? https://parahumans.wordpress.com

> Why are you typesetting them if it’s a hobby? Why not just write? Long answer: Good question. I typeset the print version of the one book I've self-published in LaTeX, because I love books and didn't want to contribute to the abysmal typesetting of KDP and bulk self-publishers. Converting to LaTeX is not that hard, the problem is that unless you write everything in Markdown or Orgmode in the first place, you'll you…

Lyx can produce both latex and ebooks from the same source document. You don't have to worry about latex technicalities while writing, and you can version it with git.

(I'm not affiliated with www.Lyx.org. But I wrote my PhD and masters with it.)

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#27

I will note that basic Buddhism and the Gnosticism appear to agree. The first noble truth of Buddhism can either be rendered as "suffering is inevitable," or "life is unsatisfactory." In my limited understanding of Gnosticism, The other three truths are that suffering is caused by a misunderstanding of our essential nature, that liberation from this suffering is possible, and that there's a path anyone can follow to…

There is a pretty good book by Karen Armstrong called "The Great Transformation" that looks at why all of this seemed to happen around the same time across different cultures and religions.

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#28

Quoting: > In some cases the decline is much steeper—30-40% from episode to episode: I speak from experience. This isn't just theoretical: it's why there won't be a third book in the series beginning with "Saturn's Children" and "Neptune's Brood": they sold okay in the USA, but then I changed US publisher—and the British sales took a 40% dive between book 1 and book 2, so I couldn't fall back on the UK market. > > A…

I am not sure I follow you here - are you saying that when a book is added to a series, it tends to generate new readers for its predecessors? I would guess that, unless the new book significantly enhances the awareness or prestige of the series, it would have little effect on the sales of earlier episodes. Otherwise, regardless of how good it is in its own right, I doubt it is likely to attract readers who have not…

It might be of little effect, but I specifically target series. A set of nine will beat out a pair for me. I'm hooked on Brandon Sanderson partly due to the interlinking between his different series.

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#29

I'm writing German science fiction novels as a hobby that are around 700-800 norm pages each and learned the hard way that at least in the German publishing market there are virtually no program places for science fiction, very few agencies accept manuscripts in that genre at all, and publishers rarely accept novels larger than 400 norm pages from a first-time writer. I'm currently sitting on 8 manuscripts - two of t…

Hyperion, probably my favorite sci-fi, was deemed too long as a single book, so it was pretty much cut in half and sold as two books.

Re: Lessons learned: writing really long fiction

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure I follow you here - are you saying that when a book is added to a series, it tends to generate new readers for its predecessors? I would guess that, unless the new book significantly enhances the awareness or prestige of the series, it would have little effect on the sales of earlier episodes. Otherwise, regardless of how good it is in its own right, I doubt it is likely to attract readers who have not…

It might be of little effect, but I specifically target series. A set of nine will beat out a pair for me. I'm hooked on Brandon Sanderson partly due to the interlinking between his different series.

Exactly. Especially in SF and Fantasy, series present a much more attractive target. You know the author has put in some love & effort into the books, and you know that the effort YOU put into learning the world and your emotional investment into the characters won't be wasted.

You might of course still drop it after the 2nd or 3rd (or even during the 1st) book due to various reasons (you didn't like it, found something better, were busy, family emergency etc..), but the nth+1 book still influenced in that first sale.

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