US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max • Hacker News Board

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#121

Post by stordoff » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 8:56 AM UTC

nonamechicken wrote: post #82

Tinfoil: Someone said something could happen with Boeing 2 weeks ago: https://www.removeddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/atcby6/... >Hello >I work IT for a company that makes your nasty inflight dining funnily enough. This Saturday something will happen that could either mean fortunes or devastation depending on your luck. I don't know which way and I won't say why. >That is all y'all. Fellow autistic chum. Got it…

Unless they make specific predictions, I'd pay it no mind (and even then they can get lucky).

There are a thousand things that line could apply to, and there are probably a ton of such "predictions" posted daily that go nowhere.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#122

Post by CaptainZapp » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

jbm wrote: post #112

twblalock wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is known at this point is that another 737 Max crashed for some reason, which might have been unrelated to the cause of the last crash, while being flown by an airline with a questionable safety record. If this turns out to have been a terrorist attack or something like that, a lot of people are going to have to eat their words, and millions of dollars will have been wasted for nothing.

Not a questionable safety record. Can we please stop assuming that African countries and airlines are all the same? https://thepointsguy.com/news/despite-recent-crash-ethiopian...

Actually a lot of African airlines do have dodgy safety records and Africa is the unsafest continent to fly.

That said Ethiopian is the shining exception and has, apart from a 70 year history, quite a stellar safety record.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#123

Post by FartyMcFarter » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 8:58 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #103

anoncoward111 wrote: post #17

"Profits over people! Go on then, we've got a plane to fly. We've put too many hours into this plane to turn back now! Don't show weakness!" - Boeing

Good grief, when was the last time Airbus grounded anything?

When was the last time that two brand new Airbus planes of the same new model crashed in similar ways?

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#124

Post by jobigoud » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 9:00 AM UTC

johnsea wrote: post #43

baxtr wrote: post #20

From a customer perspective I would have appreciated a joint approach of the major aviation agencies. The way it is handled right now, I can’t judge whether the EU is reacting shortsighted or if the US is too careless. One seems to be true?

It's easier for the EU, they don't have many MAX planes. It's likely too early to say something definitive and in times of social medial pressure one conformes if possible.

There are only 350 of these planes in service. Or more precisely 348. Nobody has a lot of them.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#125

Post by dingaling » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 9:06 AM UTC

zavi wrote: post #26

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it, can states/airports decide unilaterally not to serve them? I imagine if the highest volume airports banned these flights it would ground the vast majority of them

No? FAA makes these decisions.

Yes, an airport could reject any flightplan filed with type B38M or B39M citing operational reasons. The exception to this in the USA is when the airport is in receipt of FAA improvement grants, when they are obliged to accept all compatible traffic.

Or more subtly adjust landing and handling fees to astronomical levels for those types. That's how Gatwick in the UK discourages small turboprops, for example.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#126

Post by sametmax » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 9:09 AM UTC

If one plane crashes every year, it would still be safer to fly than to drive a car.

Even if boing is at fault, and FAA failed in their validation process, I doubt there is any evil doing in any way. Indeed, they had a fantastic track record for decades compared to pretty much any other industrial equivalent.

As an european, and as much as I would love boing to take a hit in favor or EADS, it would be unfair to them and the FAA. They have been doing a great job for so long, on so numerous complicated systems we forget that as human, we can fuck up.

Nobody can guaranty to ever do perfectly fine all the time, and certainly not in such a huge endavour. Of course, the outrage is understandable given mistakes cost lives, so the situation sucks for all the sides in this story.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#127

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 9:10 AM UTC

_cerv wrote: post #45

Some points from personal experience from working at Boeing, family working at Boeing, and a close friend on the flight line for the 737-8; - not everything is back from the Lion Air incident, but internally there was strong confidence that a lack of pilot familiarity with the adjusted mechanics of MCAS contributed to the disaster - reproducing these failures has been extremely hard and has required a lot of cooperat…

"practice, these planes don’t fly differently."

Until they crash and kill hundreds of people.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#128

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #123

briandear wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good grief, when was the last time Airbus grounded anything?

When was the last time that two brand new Airbus planes of the same new model crashed in similar ways?

When was the last time that two brand new Airbus planes of the same model crashed in similar ways and the EASA didn't ground the model?

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#129

Post by adrianN » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 9:15 AM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #126

If one plane crashes every year, it would still be safer to fly than to drive a car. Even if boing is at fault, and FAA failed in their validation process, I doubt there is any evil doing in any way. Indeed, they had a fantastic track record for decades compared to pretty much any other industrial equivalent. As an european, and as much as I would love boing to take a hit in favor or EADS, it would be unfair to them…

Nobody can guarantee absence of errors, but you can stop using machines where you have good reasons to believe that something is wrong until you've figured out what's the problem and how to fix it.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#130

Post by chopin » Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 9:18 AM UTC

argd678 wrote: post #34

chopin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's based on data why not publishing it?

Well they’re saying there is no data to indicate a systemic problem at this point, which at face value seems fair since very little is known. They tend to not jump to conclusions since they’ve had some pretty bad experiences in the past doing that.

So you are saying they don't have data to rely on, then? Finally it's the same information US and EU authorities rely on: Two incidents with planes in short order where the manufacturer withheld crucial information. I think it's fair to say that either the EASA or the FAA decision was politically motivated.