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US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

bbc.com

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Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#81

Post by isostatic »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #66
Legogris wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sudden rush to judgment on this case is unjustified by the evidence. If it turns out this was not Boeing's fault, a lot of people are going to have to eat their words, and millions of dollars will have been wasted for nothing. The prudent thing would be to err on the side of caution and suspend it until we know. What's millions of dollars (which I think is way exaggerated for a temporary suspension until the ev…

There is risk most any human activity. Your prudent thing would result in suspending any beneficial activity with any possible risk. The a prudent thing would be to err on the side of still receiving the benefits of 737 air travel.

Nobody is talking about ground the 737 - a very safe plane used thousands of times a day

This is the 737-max, a new plane with very little history, barely used, and had been involved in two crashes with similar circumstances in the last 6 months.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#82

Post by nonamechicken »

Tinfoil: Someone said something could happen with Boeing 2 weeks ago: https://www.removeddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/atcby6/...

>Hello

>I work IT for a company that makes your nasty inflight dining funnily enough. This Saturday something will happen that could either mean fortunes or devastation depending on your luck. I don't know which way and I won't say why.

>That is all y'all. Fellow autistic chum.

Got it from here: https://old.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/b039c5/ba_i...

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#83

Post by nraynaud »

crubier wrote: post #73
twblalock wrote: post #50

Lots of jumping to conclusions going on in this thread, blaming the FAA, lobbyists, and politicians for being in the pocket of Boeing. Nobody knows why this plane crashed. The flight recorders have just been recovered and so far there has been nothing in the news about what was on them. The plane might be to blame. The airline or the pilots might be to blame, and by the way, that airline has a bad safety record. It m…

> The sudden rush to judgment on this case is unjustified by the evidence. It might not be justified by a theoretical formal proof. It irks me that a lot of the HN population seems to always want to reason using formal proofs like if it was a silver bullet. In this situation, bayesian inference is appropriate, and tells us that grounding planes is highly justified. This succession of two relatively similar events in…

And there is a perfectly plausible scenario in Lions air and preliminary data on the new crash point in the same direction (erratic altitude before the crash). It’s not like there is nothing, there are technical details that do match.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#84

Post by isostatic »

twblalock wrote: post #39
kerng wrote: post #28

What I dont understand is why the airlines themselves (Southwest and American) are refusing to halt the planes - this seems totally irresponsible with what is known at this point.

What is known at this point is that another 737 Max crashed for some reason, which might have been unrelated to the cause of the last crash, while being flown by an airline with a questionable safety record. If this turns out to have been a terrorist attack or something like that, a lot of people are going to have to eat their words, and millions of dollars will have been wasted for nothing.

And if it turns out to be a fault in the max’s design, operation, or training procedures?

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#85

Post by konschubert »

nonamechicken wrote: post #82

Tinfoil: Someone said something could happen with Boeing 2 weeks ago: https://www.removeddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/atcby6/... >Hello >I work IT for a company that makes your nasty inflight dining funnily enough. This Saturday something will happen that could either mean fortunes or devastation depending on your luck. I don't know which way and I won't say why. >That is all y'all. Fellow autistic chum. Got it…

Meh. Every day, thousands such things are posted.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#86

Post by isostatic »

JackPoach wrote: post #4
tzakrajs wrote: post #2

What does the US know that the EU or China doesn't which gives them such confidence? Any clues?

Nothing. Boeing lobby power in US is exceptional. That's the only reason.

I really hope that’s not the case - I can see the argument that this might not be a design fault and we need to wait and see - just like a330s weren’t grounded after AF447

China clearly grounded ge planes for political reasons, and maybe other countries did it due to the optics.

However if the decision in the US has been pushed simply for political reasons that’s a terrible indightment on the industry.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#87

Post by wallace_f »

crubier wrote: post #78
wallace_f wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of dollars could save a lot of human life right now, even in America. Who in their right mind downvotes this? I realize HN is not representative of America, but I think if you take a moment to notice all the homeless people you step over on your way to work in SV you'd reconsider.

Sure, then let's fly other unsafe planes types as well to save money, and hand the benefits to the poor! Except, in which universe do airlines hands out their revenue to the poor ?

That's not the point. The point is that the comparison between people's lives and money is invalid.

Because scarce resources are a real thing, there necessarily should be a value to life, otherwise you are just ignoring reality.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#88

Post by nraynaud »

twblalock wrote: post #50

Lots of jumping to conclusions going on in this thread, blaming the FAA, lobbyists, and politicians for being in the pocket of Boeing. Nobody knows why this plane crashed. The flight recorders have just been recovered and so far there has been nothing in the news about what was on them. The plane might be to blame. The airline or the pilots might be to blame, and by the way, that airline has a bad safety record. It m…

Let it be clear that even if Boeing is not at fault grounding the plane is the best course of action in front of the limited evidence. Insight is 20/20, but we don’t have it. There are 2 planes whose altitude was erratic before their crash and a plausible common scenario to explain them.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#89

Post by jacquesm »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #66
Legogris wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sudden rush to judgment on this case is unjustified by the evidence. If it turns out this was not Boeing's fault, a lot of people are going to have to eat their words, and millions of dollars will have been wasted for nothing. The prudent thing would be to err on the side of caution and suspend it until we know. What's millions of dollars (which I think is way exaggerated for a temporary suspension until the ev…

There is risk most any human activity. Your prudent thing would result in suspending any beneficial activity with any possible risk. The a prudent thing would be to err on the side of still receiving the benefits of 737 air travel.

Nonsense. This plane right now has two out of about four hundred that crashed, which for a new plane is more than enough reason to hit the 'pause' button for a bit until we know or least think we know what went wrong.

Thinking like that does not result in 'suspending any beneficial activity with any possible risk', it just suspends this activity with a roughly 0.5% risk of incidence until the causes are clear.

There are plenty of other aircraft in the world, also many non-Max 737's.

Re: US refuses to ground Boeing 737 Max

#90

Post by isostatic »

stirlo wrote: post #5
tzakrajs wrote: post #2

What does the US know that the EU or China doesn't which gives them such confidence? Any clues?

They know Boeing makes up 10.5% of the Dow... [1] or it did before these crashes, currently under 10% due the the stock price dropping [1] http://indexarb.com/indexComponentWtsDJ.html

Boeing’s share price is currently 375

In December it was 316.

It’s lost 2 months of gains.

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