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Sway 1.0

drewdevault.com

221–230 of 256 posts

Re: Sway 1.0

#221
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It merits re-empathising that it's Nvidia that does not support sway - not the other way around.

The makers of the world's best and most popular graphics cards will never compromise their goals to accommodate an i3 clone. I think it's fair that the smaller entity support the larger one.

Those kind of corporate bullying tactics are not particularly welcome in open-source communities.

Re: Sway 1.0

#222

I like the idea of tiling window managers but never got the use for it. 99% of my time is spent between my browser, my IDE and my terminal. A half-size browser is painful to work with, I need it full screen. Same for IDE. Same for terminal, I do need multiple terminals but I want them together. I also have another workspace for chat stuff (browser with whatsapp, slack, messenger) and another for random apps (spotify…

The utility of a window manager like sway is stunted by many applications implementing their own window management facilities. Sway doesn't only support tiling windows, it also supports displaying multiple windows as a single window with a tab bar instead of a titlebar (or a similar mode with a vertically arranged tab bar). Any application that insists you use its built-in tab functionality is competing with sway over who gets to do window management, and it creates an awkward nested UI.

Sway is at its best when you take back control over window management from your applications and give it to your window manager. Firefox tabs are great, but they only manage Firefox windows. Tmux is great, but it only lets you tile terminals. Vim is great but it only lets you tile editors. This paradigm forces you to arrange your windows according to their type, rather than whatever layout makes sense for your workflow.

Here's a layout I often use:

I dedicate a workspace to writing a piece of software. I split it vertically and keep my editors for the files I'm actively working on on the right split and reference material on the left.

That means that my right split is mostly editor windows, but my left split is very heterogeneous. Sometimes I want to use a documentation web page for reference. Sometimes I want to reference a manpage in a terminal window. Or a repl. Or an editor window displaying a file in (conceptually) read-only mode. I keep all these sorts of windows in the same row of tabs — impossible in the conventional window management paradigm.

You need to choose software that lends itself well to this paradigm. Some software is more amenable, and some less.

Here are my recommendations:

Firefox with my webextension: https://github.com/adrusi/notable

Alacritty or st for the terminal

Kakoune for the editor (Vim probably can't be made to work, since it doesn't use a proper client/server model. Emacs doesn't work out of the box, but I'm sure it could be made to work. Atom and vscode conflate the concept of a window with the concept of a project too thoroughly for me to hold out any hope that they can be adapted easily. Kakoune works out of the box.)

Pidgin for instant messaging (works well for IRC and Facebook messages; has a config option to open new chats as new windows instead of tabs)

Zathura for viewing PDFs

Mpv for video and audio

Re: Sway 1.0

#223
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get the benefit of a tiling window manager. I tried one and instantly felt boxed in. There's not enough room on the screen for everything I need to have opened and flip between, which is why I use an overlapping window manager in the first place.

With a tiling window manager, every window you open has cognitive overload. Which workspace, which location on screen, is it okay if other windows resize, or do I have it float even? Every tile you add affects the other tiles in some way - at the very least a new tile (e.g. on a new workspace) consumes space that cannot be taken by other tiles. The reward for this additional cognitive load is that every action is con…

> With a tiling window manager, every window you open has cognitive overload. Which workspace, which location on screen, is it okay if other windows resize, or do I have it float even? Every tile you add affects the other tiles in some way - at the very least a new tile (e.g. on a new workspace) consumes space that cannot be taken by other tiles. The reward for this additional cognitive load is that every action is concious - reducing a lot of the mess that can pile while using a comptuer. This makes them incredibly suitable for people whose computer use is predictable, organized and focused on quick parallel tasks. I understand why so many developers use them.

This is not true, at least not in i3. When I don't want to think about how to position a new window I can simply switch to tabbed or stack mode, where all windows inside a determined workspace will be "maximized", and I can switch to them by changing the tab (mostly like browsers and web pages). This isn't really much different to Alt-Tabbing, except that I find more efficient (of course, this last part is IMO).

It is true that on my current setup almost all workspaces have a specific usage, however I have a "trash" workspace specially created to put those things that does not make sense in any other workspace. This workspace generally runs in tabbed mode thanks to above.

Re: Sway 1.0

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get the benefit of a tiling window manager. I tried one and instantly felt boxed in. There's not enough room on the screen for everything I need to have opened and flip between, which is why I use an overlapping window manager in the first place.

I get the opposite feeling. I feel like I'm in a trash dump when I use an overlapping window manager, and have to sort through the pile to find what I need. Tiling window managers perhaps make more sense for devs or other professionals who use several of the same applications every day and know what window and pane they will be on, and can switch quickly with keystrokes. That being said, once you internalize the mode…

I use tools that let me jump to an open window by typing its name. Spotlight on MacOS, equivalent tools exist on Windows.

I don't care how things are arranged spacially if they are just a few quick letters away.

Re: Sway 1.0

#225
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The makers of the world's best and most popular graphics cards will never compromise their goals to accommodate an i3 clone. I think it's fair that the smaller entity support the larger one.

Our policy bubbles down to wlroots, which is the basis of a huge variety of Wayland compositors. However, we only need to support Nvidia if our goals include "adoption by Nvidia users". But they don't, so we aren't going to.

[deleted]

Re: Sway 1.0

#226
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a video. Are you sure you aren't using Netscape? The video is webm, which is supported by all major browsers.

They may be using a browser that does not support vp9 such as safari or mobile browsers. Even if they support the container format webm, it does not mean that it supports all formats.

What should be done in that case? posting a video in some ancient codec (VP9 is from 2012) to be 100% sure that everyone --sans Lynx users-- can play it?

Re: Sway 1.0

#227

Congrats on the release! You should be very proud of what your movement has accomplished. I want to highlight something that I appreciate in your release post, which is the short explanation between paragraphs 1 & 2: "Sway is an i3-compatible Wayland desktop for Linux and FreeBSD" One of my major peeves with OSS projects is the tendency to adopt an "if you're reading this, you already know what this is for" stance. I…

Thanks for saying this! I noticed this too. Sway got this right. So often I'm linked to a project status announcement where I soon give up because it's not all clear what the project is about. Even just adding a sentence or two like Sway did goes a long way.

Am I crazy, or did you completely misinterpret the OP’s post?

Re: Sway 1.0

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should, but doesn't. This is all there is: "Sway allows you to arrange your application windows logically, rather than spatially. Windows are arranged into a grid by default which maximizes the efficiency of your screen and can be quickly manipulated using only the keyboard." Sounds interesting. No screenshots, though. Just a big black box reading "No compatible source was found for this media." I guess it's trying t…

There is a video. Are you sure you aren't using Netscape? The video is webm, which is supported by all major browsers.

Firefox Mobile? I’m seeing a black box too.

Re: Sway 1.0

#229

This is huge news. Sway is absolutely incredible, it puts macOS, built by Apple's army of engineers and dump trucks of money to shame in its simplicity, stability, and efficiency. If you want the best of the best DE, look no further. If you're on the fence about trying a tiling windows manager, I say, give it a shot for a single week and you'll never look back. Invest a few hours in a sway config file that will serve…

How is this on Nvidia? I'm on KDE neon and so no Wayland due to Nvidia's lack of APIs

Re: Sway 1.0

#230
post #4
post #3

Congrats on the release, Drew. I'm going to fire up a Linux distro this week and try this out. Out of curiosity, what distro do you use?

Thanks! I use Alpine Linux.

You've probably written about it before, but care to elaborate? Is alpine as a desktop in any way viable for regular users?
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