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Faxing is growing in popularity

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Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#101

Post by DanBC »

wutbrodo wrote: post #33
newhotelowner wrote: post #21

Every single hotel that caters corporate clients in the USA still uses fax. We don't get reservations through fax, but that is the best way to get credit card authorization. A lot of corporate booking systems are automated to send out Fax for credit card authorization after they book the room online. Also, it's much better for our Front desk staff, as they don't have to constantly check the email. There is only 1 fax…

> I really wish there is a modern alternative to FAX What's missing from email + a couple lines of script code? (Or if you prefer, a lightweight piece of software that does the same thing). It seems like that covers all the cases you describe: automatically prints, don't have to check it, you can have only one email, etc. I mean the fact that some other parties are stuck on a legacy system is of course always a good…

> What's missing from email + a couple lines of script code?

Medical use: I call someone to tell them to expect a fax. I send the fax. I call the person and ask if they got the fax.

When sending the fax I hit the button and hear a dial tone. I know my machine is connected to the exchange. I dial the number and hear the ring tone. I know the recipient's machine is connected to the exchange. I hear their machine pickup and negotiate with mine. I know our machines are connected. My fax goes through. If it doesn't go through I get an error. If it doesn't go through on the recipient's machine I get an error.

You don't need this for a hotel booking.

You do need this if your patient is suicidal and plans to end their life and you're making a referral to a crisis team.

Unfortunately, many places do not use real fax machines plugged into POTS. They use virtual fax machines which do goodness-knows-what over the Internet. So, we get the drawbacks of fax combined with the unknown status of Internet.

It's a real mess. There's a huge amount of money (in the UK NHS) to be made with a better replacement.

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#102

Post by jessaustin »

DanBC wrote: post #101
wutbrodo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really wish there is a modern alternative to FAX What's missing from email + a couple lines of script code? (Or if you prefer, a lightweight piece of software that does the same thing). It seems like that covers all the cases you describe: automatically prints, don't have to check it, you can have only one email, etc. I mean the fact that some other parties are stuck on a legacy system is of course always a good…

> What's missing from email + a couple lines of script code? Medical use: I call someone to tell them to expect a fax. I send the fax. I call the person and ask if they got the fax. When sending the fax I hit the button and hear a dial tone. I know my machine is connected to the exchange. I dial the number and hear the ring tone. I know the recipient's machine is connected to the exchange. I hear their machine pickup…

You could always call before and after an email. I've done that before, when dealing with someone I didn't trust to read her email.

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#103

Post by jessaustin »

jaclaz wrote: post #82
simmons wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not exactly a virus, but last fall some folks put together a PoC showing how certain fax machines could be compromised over the phone line, and used to gain access to their connected networks. [1] [1] https://blog.checkpoint.com/2018/08/12/faxploit-hp-printer-f...

Yep, IF the FAX is connected to network (some are, some aren't) and I would be surprised (even if the researchers do state that) that a "generic" exploit (meaning ALL brand/model of all-in-ones) is possible (maybe they would need a "library" of similar exploits and test them until they find the "right" one for the given brand/model at the other end).

Most exploitation is not "generic" in that way.

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#104

Post by nl »

DanBC wrote: post #101
wutbrodo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really wish there is a modern alternative to FAX What's missing from email + a couple lines of script code? (Or if you prefer, a lightweight piece of software that does the same thing). It seems like that covers all the cases you describe: automatically prints, don't have to check it, you can have only one email, etc. I mean the fact that some other parties are stuck on a legacy system is of course always a good…

> What's missing from email + a couple lines of script code? Medical use: I call someone to tell them to expect a fax. I send the fax. I call the person and ask if they got the fax. When sending the fax I hit the button and hear a dial tone. I know my machine is connected to the exchange. I dial the number and hear the ring tone. I know the recipient's machine is connected to the exchange. I hear their machine pickup…

In many parts of the world they use WhatsApp for he equivalent workflow in multiple domains.

That little green tick when someone reads your message is a surprisingly critical part of the workflow.

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#105

Post by Symbiote »

tomjen3 wrote: post #86
newhotelowner wrote: post #21

Every single hotel that caters corporate clients in the USA still uses fax. We don't get reservations through fax, but that is the best way to get credit card authorization. A lot of corporate booking systems are automated to send out Fax for credit card authorization after they book the room online. Also, it's much better for our Front desk staff, as they don't have to constantly check the email. There is only 1 fax…

I have a cheap home scanner, which can scan and email by pushing one button, and (I think) just attaches a pdf. PDF pretty much is the modern version of the fax.

Similarly, pretty much any large multi-function printer (the thing as big as a photocopier) has a scan-to-email function.

The one at my work can scan both sides of a sheaf of papers at about 2 sheets per second, and attach it as a single PDF or set of JPEGs etc.

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#106

Post by barkingtoad »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #46
JohnFen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just not true as a blanket statement. I am as cutting-edge tech-wise as anybody (it is my industry, after all), but that doesn't blind me to the fact that there do, in fact, exist use cases for which the fax is the best solution.

Everyone has a camera on a device that can send emails. Unless the internet went down and for some reason the phone system still worked, I can't think of any scenario where fax is better than emailing photos.

The fax protocol includes a strong "read receipt" type mechanism that the machines can't ignore. "Did you get the last page?" "Yes, no bad lines."

Legally, this is interesting because it doesn't exist in email. You had the machines agree that the complete document was sent and was received. You will certainly find that it other transfer protocols, but not email, where the machines don't talk to each other directly.

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#107

Post by Trisell »

tim333 wrote: post #99
reaperducer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How secure do I need my restaurant take-out order to be?

>By one private firm’s estimate, the fax accounts for about 75 percent of all medical communication https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/10/30/16228054/american...

This is because fax is still considered by HIPAA to be a secure method of transferring patient information. Where email is unencrypted and this considered to be insecure.

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#108

Post by Symbiote »

newhotelowner wrote: post #21

Every single hotel that caters corporate clients in the USA still uses fax. We don't get reservations through fax, but that is the best way to get credit card authorization. A lot of corporate booking systems are automated to send out Fax for credit card authorization after they book the room online. Also, it's much better for our Front desk staff, as they don't have to constantly check the email. There is only 1 fax…

I'm outside the USA, but my employer organizes a lot of travel all around the world — on every continent, from the USA to Somalia to Fiji to some rainforest in Brazil.

The fax machine was thrown out last year, after sitting unused for years. I assume we reserve and pay for hotels over the WWW. Emails sent to (and from) 'travel@example.org' are seen in a single mailbox by the people who organize travel and their manager. Outlook goes "Ping!" when an email is received.

If it's necessary, the secretary can access those emails from home or holiday.

> Scan documents to a computer, convert to PDF, Send an email with an attachment, Check email periodically, Print Email.

Any scanner / printer-scanner / photocopier-printer-scanner made in the last 15 years will do the first half of this in one step (i.e. insert document, press "email", enter address or choose from the address book, press "Scan & Send").

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#109

Post by basch »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #59
basch wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay for this in data entry. Sending pages, means that someone has to retype the data into a database compared to sending it in some kind of data structure that can be imported. Or worse the data doesnt get entered, and it ends up in a filing cabinet.

>Or worse the data doesnt get entered, and it ends up in a filing cabinet. God forbid that data not be vacuumed up never to be seen again except by the advertisers. /s A file cabinet in the back office probably handles most people's use cases for documents they receive by fax 90% as well as any digital solution with a heck of a lot less effort.

In the context of medical records, as a patient, id like to be able to download and transport my records without an office needing to pull out paper and copy it for me.

Re: Faxing is growing in popularity

#110

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

Animats wrote: post #25

The intelligence community has been intercepting faxes for decades.[1] It's not very secure. Even worse, VoIP systems recognize fax modem signals, decode them, transmit them as data, and re-encode them as fax modem signals.[2] They have to; VoIP has such awful jitter and bandwidth that you can't send modem signals over it. So it's easy to peel off the fax data and log it. This is done routinely using fax servers. [1]…

Isn’t the reason to fax not privacy from the government but rather that phone communications are subject to wiretapping laws that email/the internet isn’t so you have more options for recourse if someone non-government actor intercepts the message? At least, I heard that something like this was true.
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