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Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

businessinsider.com

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Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#11

Post by AndrewBissell »

Zelphyr wrote: post #10

As an aside, if you’re using company-provided computers and phones your default behavior should be to assume they are spying on you to the degree that they are recording every action you take in those devices. It’s a spectrum—many companies don’t do this at all—but you would be doing well by yourself by assuming they record and track everything. You should also assume all of your traffic while at the office (if your…

> The tip from Sean Gouthro, the former head of Tesla's global security operations center and investigations, was filed on January 24 and corroborates a tip filed in August from Karl Hansen ... Hansen's tip claimed that Tesla did not disclose to shareholders the theft of raw materials and the unauthorized surveillance and hacking of employee cellphones and computers.

This is not a tip about Tesla watching what its employees are doing on its own equipment and data networks.

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#12

Post by AndrewBissell »

anyfoo wrote: post #7

You might think that the way Tesla treats employees, like this incident and the general impression that they are being driven into burnout, has some consequences. And I think that’s exactly what we’re seeing with the generally tumultuous news that we see on Tesla lately. Heck, there’s another HN front page entry just today, about Tesla’s sudden reversal to close all stores. It’s probably not the only factor, but I wo…

If it was not for the strength of cult belief in Elon Musk within the company, they would probably be facing an open revolt at this point.

Don't miss "incentivizing employees to take out loans and spend PTO on new Teslas just before docking their pay": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19361710

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#13

Post by benj111 »

Zelphyr wrote: post #10

As an aside, if you’re using company-provided computers and phones your default behavior should be to assume they are spying on you to the degree that they are recording every action you take in those devices. It’s a spectrum—many companies don’t do this at all—but you would be doing well by yourself by assuming they record and track everything. You should also assume all of your traffic while at the office (if your…

You could 'hack' any spying tendency though, just set up a system to send emails early morning, late at night, at weekends.

Then come annual review time, your boss can be impressed by your dedication.

This is off the top of my head, and does have the obvious flaws of being obviously automated from the sending machined perspective, and emails might not be a sign of work in your particular job. It probably has unobvious flaws as well, so isn't career advice.

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#14

Post by bdamm »

benj111 wrote: post #13
Zelphyr wrote: post #10

As an aside, if you’re using company-provided computers and phones your default behavior should be to assume they are spying on you to the degree that they are recording every action you take in those devices. It’s a spectrum—many companies don’t do this at all—but you would be doing well by yourself by assuming they record and track everything. You should also assume all of your traffic while at the office (if your…

You could 'hack' any spying tendency though, just set up a system to send emails early morning, late at night, at weekends. Then come annual review time, your boss can be impressed by your dedication. This is off the top of my head, and does have the obvious flaws of being obviously automated from the sending machined perspective, and emails might not be a sign of work in your particular job. It probably has unobviou…

Right, and I would counter that if you're doing this, it's time to look for a new job. It's not good for your own personal career, it isn't good for your company, it isn't good for your relationship with your manager, and it is illegal is many locales.

So, no, please don't do this.

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#15

Post by dontbenebby »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #11
Zelphyr wrote: post #10

As an aside, if you’re using company-provided computers and phones your default behavior should be to assume they are spying on you to the degree that they are recording every action you take in those devices. It’s a spectrum—many companies don’t do this at all—but you would be doing well by yourself by assuming they record and track everything. You should also assume all of your traffic while at the office (if your…

> The tip from Sean Gouthro, the former head of Tesla's global security operations center and investigations, was filed on January 24 and corroborates a tip filed in August from Karl Hansen ... Hansen's tip claimed that Tesla did not disclose to shareholders the theft of raw materials and the unauthorized surveillance and hacking of employee cellphones and computers. This is not a tip about Tesla watching what its em…

>This is not a tip about Tesla watching what its employees are doing on its own equipment and data networks.

I'm curious about details on this. Modern phones (well, iPhones at least) are pretty hard to break into.

I wonder if it was something like having them install a root certificate to use the company wifi, then using that root cert to spy on other traffic traversing the network (such as leaks to reporters)

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#16

Post by aceperry »

bdamm wrote: post #14
benj111 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could 'hack' any spying tendency though, just set up a system to send emails early morning, late at night, at weekends. Then come annual review time, your boss can be impressed by your dedication. This is off the top of my head, and does have the obvious flaws of being obviously automated from the sending machined perspective, and emails might not be a sign of work in your particular job. It probably has unobviou…

Right, and I would counter that if you're doing this, it's time to look for a new job. It's not good for your own personal career, it isn't good for your company, it isn't good for your relationship with your manager, and it is illegal is many locales. So, no, please don't do this.

Just wondering what part is illegal. I'm not familiar with this sort of thing.

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#17

Post by [deleted] »

dontbenebby wrote: post #15
AndrewBissell wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tip from Sean Gouthro, the former head of Tesla's global security operations center and investigations, was filed on January 24 and corroborates a tip filed in August from Karl Hansen ... Hansen's tip claimed that Tesla did not disclose to shareholders the theft of raw materials and the unauthorized surveillance and hacking of employee cellphones and computers. This is not a tip about Tesla watching what its em…

>This is not a tip about Tesla watching what its employees are doing on its own equipment and data networks. I'm curious about details on this. Modern phones (well, iPhones at least) are pretty hard to break into. I wonder if it was something like having them install a root certificate to use the company wifi, then using that root cert to spy on other traffic traversing the network (such as leaks to reporters)

[deleted]

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#18

Post by bdamm »

aceperry wrote: post #16
bdamm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and I would counter that if you're doing this, it's time to look for a new job. It's not good for your own personal career, it isn't good for your company, it isn't good for your relationship with your manager, and it is illegal is many locales. So, no, please don't do this.

Just wondering what part is illegal. I'm not familiar with this sort of thing.

Fraud is lying to get paid. The employee is lying about their work (generating fake emails to fluff up email counts) with knowledge that the information is used to gauge work done. Their employment continuance, or bonuses, are partially factored based on this metric. Thus, they are lying to get paid. That is fraud.

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#19

Post by darkpuma »

bdamm wrote: post #18
aceperry wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wondering what part is illegal. I'm not familiar with this sort of thing.

Fraud is lying to get paid. The employee is lying about their work (generating fake emails to fluff up email counts) with knowledge that the information is used to gauge work done. Their employment continuance, or bonuses, are partially factored based on this metric. Thus, they are lying to get paid. That is fraud.

If a salaried employee lets his boss see him when he comes into the office early, then when out of sight sips coffee and relaxes until his coworkers arrive, is that also fraud? If you caught one of your employees doing that, would you call the cops and report him for fraud?

Re: Another former Tesla security manager says the company spied on employees

#20

Post by throwawaynonce »

Zelphyr wrote: post #10

As an aside, if you’re using company-provided computers and phones your default behavior should be to assume they are spying on you to the degree that they are recording every action you take in those devices. It’s a spectrum—many companies don’t do this at all—but you would be doing well by yourself by assuming they record and track everything. You should also assume all of your traffic while at the office (if your…

> You should also assume all of your traffic while at the office

I fell out with my manager at FANG and she got back at me with the lowest rating possible for the year-end review. I chose to get my concerns across to HR about how this was unfair and challenged them to validate her critical feedback with peer engs. Didn't happen.

Instead what followed was, I was investigated for violation of company rules such as putting company laptop to personal use, violating social media policy, holding on to company documents for more time than company's policy permits... among a lot of such trivial other things (I was astonished at the intelligence they had built up, I guess, by using responses to internal surveys, predicting probability to have done something via browsing patterns, keeping tabs on laptop disk usage etc).

Once they had built "a case" they would go on to engage legal and terminate my employment with what I presume now qualifies as "just cause" and avoid having to pay any severance.

Has worked wonders for them, this tactic. I have since heared that a few other employees have been handled in a similar manner and that I was not the only one.

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