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China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

reuters.com

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Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#181

Post by railmistake »

PaulHoule wrote: post #124

What people are forgetting here is that the 737 Max is an airplane that is designed to make flying more miserable even if you survive the flight. The common seat layout of the Max 8 squeezes in more rows for a worse experience. Compare the 737 to the Embrarer 175 - the Embrarer is a much smaller plane but it has an elliptical fuselage so that you can stand up comfortably in it and also not get a crick in your neck fr…

>Embrarer is going to eat their lunch Not so fast: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing-Embraer_joint_venture At some point you have to wonder where is America Antitrust laws...

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#182

Post by [deleted] »

ReptileMan wrote: post #99
shawabawa3 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 planes have gone down in 6 months, basically unprecedented in commercial aviation

777 with Malaysia Airlines. But in one case it was highjacking by the pilot and in other anti aircraft missile. But it was not problems with the airplanes per se. The new Max is having issues. Whether it need combo of inexperienced pilots and specific chain of sensor errors to be presented simultaneously is to be seen.

[deleted]

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#183

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Rooster61 wrote: post #138
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what else you need to establish the fact that 737 Max worth to be grounded for a full investigation? With all my respect, this is an opinion, not a fact. A fact has to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Here it's just "likely to be true" at best.

This isn't a court of law. People have died on this aircraft twice in 6 months. Fact beyond reasonable doubt is not the threshold for taking actions of prevention while make sure nothing is wrong with that airframe.

Yes, indeed courts also use "balanced of probabilities" in civil cases which is a much lower threshold that may well be met here.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#185

Post by alistairSH »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #179
alistairSH wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question... is there a difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese airlines? I know they're not literally led by the government, but I was under the impression the government still wielded disproportionate control over industry in Chine (relative to what we expect in the West).

I'd have thought the UK government [and others in The West] had the ability to legally compel airlines not to fly particular models of aircraft? If not, then the Chinese system would appear to be superior as safety can trump commercial considerations then.

FAA certainly can do so. Either by decertifying a pane, or issuing various air worthiness directives or other instructions.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#186

Post by sangnoir »

snowwrestler wrote: post #115
userbinator wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. If this happened to a US airline, I bet the reaction would be quite different.

Yes because FAA understands well the maintenance and training standards of US airlines. These are factors that depend on airline, not airframe, and affect the likelihood of crashes.

All airlines that fly into the US - including Ethiopian - follow FAA rules on maintenance and training. So the FAA already understands the Ethiopian standards well, since they set them.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#187

Post by brandon272 »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #80
toephu2 wrote: post #76

Because one plane went down now everyone is scared and going to cancel any 737 flights. Irrational humans that pay attention to the news. Your chances of dying in a car accident are much higher than dying from flying on a Boeing 737. Are you still going to drive to work tomorrow though? Edit: Yes it is good that 737s are being suspended and investigated but still, statistically speaking, flying is safer than driving.…

2 planes have gone down in 6 months, basically unprecedented in commercial aviation

Also worth noting that they have only built 350 737 MAX aircraft so far. 2 already destroyed out of 350 doesn't seem like a plane I want to fly on, regardless of industry-wide stats regarding accidents per billion miles travelled.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#188

Post by chrischen »

refurb wrote: post #128
chrischen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is a two party state... so what? My point is if your mind is closed to looking at their actions at an objective level, there is no point arguing against your position, since it is that China is inherently evil, and is incapable of good actions. Question is, what if you’re wrong? What if one party is better than two, or four, or 8? And if you can’t consider that possibility, are you any more open than China’s…

There is massive gorge between a one party state and a two party state. Stop trying Arthur they are the same.

As I’m sure there is a massive difference between a two party state and a n-party state (or even senate/house). We all think our own systems are the best...

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#189

Post by stevehawk »

throwaway66666 wrote: post #79
hohohmm wrote: post #29

It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. Would you fly 737 max8 tomorrow? Anybody who knows anything about Chinese aviation industry knows that it is severely government-regulated industry and the top 1 priority is safety. It has better records than the American counterpart. While BOEING(being one of the pillars of American industry) might twist arms in co…

Before reading the article and before seeing your comment, I was chatting with my partner about the 737 Max, advising her to be wary. And lo and behold... You are definitely not alone in this. However, and to play a bit devil's advocate, China has a reputation as being a place that does not care about the value of human life, and the current climate is charged with USA advising people to ban Huawei's hardware, so thi…

Well if it were France we would bat an eye because Airbus.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#190

Post by delfinom »

mprev wrote: post #140
YinglingLight wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Billions of dollars are involved in the procurement of the 737. When billions of dollars are involved, politics is inevitable. Why are Boeing the only planes that crash?

The Airbus A320 alone has had 35 hull loss incidents. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incide... Whatever else you think about this topic, it’s utter nonsense to say only Boeings crash.

None of those crashes are due to new undocumented features pilots totally don't need to be retained for.
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