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China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

reuters.com

161–170 of 212 posts

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#161

I need to book a flight. Does anybody know whether Google Flight differentiates Boeing 737s from the 737 Max in its listings (where it lists the type of plane for a flight). I haven't seen any that say max..

I don't know about Google, but if you're on Southwest's website, you can click on the flight number and it'll tell you what model of 737 it'll be.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#162

Not only is this an appropriate (and probably correct - time will tell) reaction by China, but it represents the Chinese government taking consumer safety and health more seriously than the US. Does anyone know if this is the first such example? They've come a long way from the scandal of having melamine in the milk.

> it represents the Chinese government taking consumer safety and health more seriously than the US.

current trade discussions w/r/t fentanyl regulation in PRC would suggest otherwise

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#163
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German car manufacturers self-certify the CO2 exhausts. TEPCO certifies their Japanese nuclear plants. Works great, doesn't it?

It was NOx, and they didn't self certify, they cheated the tests.

Car companies operate their own testing units at their factories. I don’t see how this is different from self certification.

Ex: “Today in Tokyo, Nissan joined the increasing list of automakers who have admitted to falsifying emissions and/or fuel economy figures. The company said it had uncovered falsified data from car exhaust emissions tests at most of its plants based in Japan.https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2018/07/09/nissan-adm...

Trust but verify is common worldwide for this stuff. Otherwise governments would need to install and operate a lot of equipment at every factory worldwide.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#164
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most interesting tidbit for me was: > Boeing decided to feed M.C.A.S. with data from only one of the two angle of attack sensors at a time, depending on which of two, redundant flight control computers — one on the captain’s side, one on the first officer’s side — happened to be active on that flight.

that’s unbelievable, it clearly disobey the redundancy in the design of plane.

The theory is if one computer fails due to bad data from a faulty sensor, you've got another computer ready that hasn't seen said data [1]. It'd be pretty bad if bad data from a single sensor broke both computers at the same time.

Obviously, the Lion Air flight did crash, so this no longer seems like such a wise design.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19077351

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#165
post #84
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many of the hull loses were due to pilot error (e.g. AF 447)? He is counting 11 hull losses, which is the correct number of hull loss ( http://aviation-safety.net/database/types/Airbus-A330/losses ), but he didn't bother to look for anything more than that. Out of these 11 losses, four were due to ground attack by armed groups (Two in Sri Lanka in 2001, two in Libya in 2014. These are the one marked "C1" in the…

And looking through the rest, two of them were "chemical leakage/fire in the cargo bay" and one of them was obvious pilot error ("fell off the runway").

"pilot error" isn't good enough. Good design and engineering can mitigate human failings, bad can exacerbate them.

The only accident investigation I've ever read (I read a lot of these) that actually had no broader recommendations for safety, was one where two fishermen used enough heroin to render themselves incapable of operating their boat safely and they drowned. The investors concluded that yup, taking so much heroin that you can't operate the boat is a bad idea, don't do that. Heroin is, of course, already a class A drug and you're not supposed to use it at all while operating a boat. No new recommendations.

Back in software, it's theoretically possible to do PKCS #1 v1.5 decryption safely but you're going to keep seeing Bleichenbacher Oracles until we stop using it in online protocols, because doing it correctly is hard. So we should just stop doing it altogether.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#166
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in my case it was a pretty straightforward situation with 1 airline not having the 8max at all (despite an article saying otherwise?) and my other flights being on 737-700's. I read a fair bit about this whole mess today and saw some posts saying there was a way to use SeatGuru to reliably distinguish between Max 8 / legacy 737-800, but I didn't need to dig that much myself and as you noted especially for fligh…

The death will be quick - why worry so much?

From touching the ground to brain death may be a short time, but from realizing the plane is going to crash to brain death, not so much.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any aircraft can be stalled fairly easily. I think the problem may be between the yoke and the chair (PBYAC). Especially when it's a new aircraft, perhaps pilots need time to adjust, same as when you and I get in to a new car, it may have different response when you hit the gas, different mirrors, different sounds, different steering wheel sensitivity, etc.

General aviation aircraft can be stalled easily. Stalling a commercial airliner takes much more effort, which is why it's so shocking when it actually happens.

I was shocked a couple years ago when I drove a rental car and the engine turned off/stalled during stop at traffic lights, I took the car back to the AVIS and was told this is a feature of the car - a Malibu I think.

if it works, don't change it - sadly nowadays that's not true anymore for tech industry, they change things for the sake of change.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#168
post #47

I need to book a flight. Does anybody know whether Google Flight differentiates Boeing 737s from the 737 Max in its listings (where it lists the type of plane for a flight). I haven't seen any that say max..

Go to Seat Guru to enter your airline and flight date. It will show the seat layout of the flight, along with the plane model. e.g. https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American...

Airlines are known to change airplanes if usage is too low or too high (beyond overbooking limits)

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#169

Forget China, think about yourself. If you have an option to fly on a 737 Max or another aircraft right now, which would you choose? I suspect market forces will ground these planes anyway.

Any aircraft can be stalled fairly easily. I think the problem may be between the yoke and the chair (PBYAC). Especially when it's a new aircraft, perhaps pilots need time to adjust, same as when you and I get in to a new car, it may have different response when you hit the gas, different mirrors, different sounds, different steering wheel sensitivity, etc.

Pilots definitely need time to adjust, but that adjustment is supposed to be done in training, not rolled into scheduled passenger flights.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#170
post #29

It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. Would you fly 737 max8 tomorrow? Anybody who knows anything about Chinese aviation industry knows that it is severely government-regulated industry and the top 1 priority is safety. It has better records than the American counterpart. While BOEING(being one of the pillars of American industry) might twist arms in co…

Before reading the article and before seeing your comment, I was chatting with my partner about the 737 Max, advising her to be wary. And lo and behold... You are definitely not alone in this. However, and to play a bit devil's advocate, China has a reputation as being a place that does not care about the value of human life, and the current climate is charged with USA advising people to ban Huawei's hardware, so thi…

China doesn't value the average person's life. But as you can see in the Huawei case, they seem to value some lives very highly. I suspect that the people flying are multiple times more valued by the Chinese government than normal citizens.
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