Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 212 posts

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#151

Post by appleflaxen »

quanticle wrote: post #18
dschuler wrote: post #15

People seem to think this is a political move by the China, which may be true, but this is actually what they're supposed to do. According to the article, 96 737 MAX jets are operated by Chinese airlines, and the aircraft appears to be racking up a questionable safety record. I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. Lauda Air flight 004 [0] c…

>I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. I would. The FAA grounded the Boeing 787 after some widely publicized battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_... . I would assume that they would do the same thing here, if this also turned out to be a widespread issue not related to aircraft maintenance or pilot tr…

if you wait until the extant fleet is already grounded, then re-ground them, then there is no political influence.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#152

Post by _ph_ »

rurban wrote: post #100
dschuler wrote: post #15

People seem to think this is a political move by the China, which may be true, but this is actually what they're supposed to do. According to the article, 96 737 MAX jets are operated by Chinese airlines, and the aircraft appears to be racking up a questionable safety record. I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. Lauda Air flight 004 [0] c…

The problem is not the questionable safety record. The problem are the latest revisions 8 - 10 of the flight software, which enabled the new anti-stall feature by default automatically. Previously anti-stall just signaled a warning, now it automatically turns the nose down, fighting the pilots attempt to ascend the machine after a start. This is a serious security defect. #1 anti-stall being fooled by some strong AOA…

I disagree your conclusions, as the cause of the two crashes was not determined yet to my knowledge. But your description of the problem sounds plausible at least, so I upvoted your comment anyway.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#153

Post by PaulHoule »

gruez wrote: post #144
PaulHoule wrote: post #124

What people are forgetting here is that the 737 Max is an airplane that is designed to make flying more miserable even if you survive the flight. The common seat layout of the Max 8 squeezes in more rows for a worse experience. Compare the 737 to the Embrarer 175 - the Embrarer is a much smaller plane but it has an elliptical fuselage so that you can stand up comfortably in it and also not get a crick in your neck fr…

> breathe toxic fumes Elaborate?

The 737 uses an air bleed system instead of a modern electric system.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#154

Post by houseofzeus »

chvid wrote: post #71
akg_67 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, FAA didn’t ground 787 until both Japanese airlines had grounded the 787. With the number of fatalities and accidents new 737 had, it should be grounded by all airlines.

I was checking out a thread about the subject on reddit aviation; half the people are saying this is a political move by China - the other half are checking their flights to make sure they are not flying a 737 MAX. What happened to better safe than sorry? Obviously this type of plane needs to be grounded until issues are resolved or the two crashes can be definitely be dismissed as a freak coincedence.

I agree. Even if it turns out to be a different cause, who wants to be the airline that gives it the benefit of the doubt in the meantime? The optics at this point if it happens again while this one is still being investigated are awful. The Chinese decision here seems pretty rational.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#155

Post by tokai »

tyingq wrote: post #126
tokai wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I try to look it up I find that China have a rate of 0.45 accidents per million departures while the US have a rate of 1.28. If someone writes something wrong, please provide a source showing them to be wrong. https://www.icao.int/safety/iStars/Pages/Accident-Statistics...

That's by country of occurrence. By country of operator is probably a better indicator. Until very recently, China had more international passengers than domestic. Your figure is also for a single year.

Yeah I know. The point here is that it is a figure. Instead of just angry words and nothing to back it up. You're welcome to calculate more precise numbers if you care about it.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#156

Post by dawson »

tyingq wrote: post #150

I took Boeing's order list[1], and made a list of 737 MAX Operators with numbers of orders and already delivered: https://gist.github.com/tyingq/5c45907c22ec62c00e02079e1fecf... [1] http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/displaystandardre...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_orders_...

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#157

Post by howard941 »

ulfw wrote: post #122
quanticle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. I would. The FAA grounded the Boeing 787 after some widely publicized battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_... . I would assume that they would do the same thing here, if this also turned out to be a widespread issue not related to aircraft maintenance or pilot tr…

Please don't try to change history. The FAA only took action after the Japanese (the only major operators at the time) stopped flying them. The same FAA who is in bed with Boeing I might say. Where in the world can you self-certify anything? What's the point of getting certified if you can do it yourself? Reminds me of self-grading in school. That was only in classes noone ever cared about. https://www.seattletimes.c…

> Where in the world can you self-certify anything?

In the US. Self-certification is pervasive in the aviation industry. For ex., an A&P self-certifies her own work. A pilot self-certifies night landing and instrument currency.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#158

Post by [deleted] »

dawson wrote: post #156
tyingq wrote: post #150

I took Boeing's order list[1], and made a list of 737 MAX Operators with numbers of orders and already delivered: https://gist.github.com/tyingq/5c45907c22ec62c00e02079e1fecf... [1] http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/displaystandardre...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_orders_...

[deleted]

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#159

Post by amyjess »

cjbprime wrote: post #34
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guesstimate flying on a 737 Max is still safer than driving a car.

The actual option is going to be flying on a Max vs. choosing a different airline or flight number that uses a different model of plane.

Yes, I've been toying around with the idea of booking a flight for later this year when I get paid on Friday, and I'm paying careful attention to the flight numbers on Southwest's website to make sure that whatever I pick won't be a MAX.

(fortunately, the flights between DAL and LGA seem to be mostly 700s, at least during the time of year I want to travel)

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#160

Post by petschge »

snowwrestler wrote: post #115
userbinator wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. If this happened to a US airline, I bet the reaction would be quite different.

Yes because FAA understands well the maintenance and training standards of US airlines. These are factors that depend on airline, not airframe, and affect the likelihood of crashes.

I can not speak to Lion Air, but Ethiopian Airlines has a good maintenance and training record. It is widely considered the best airline in Africa and does maintenance for a lot of other airlines on the continent.
Post reply on HN