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India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

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Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#171

Post by darepublic »

djsumdog wrote: post #84
quakeguy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutly right. To others seeing this comment, i‘d recommend you watch the Documentary named „Plastic China“. It is on YT, but you support the makers here: https://www.plasticchina.org We need to stop plastic polluttion now, or im afraid the earths ecosystem will collapse sooner or later.

I feel like the debate on human induced climate change is a red haring. It's so abstract, it basically invites conflict and CO2 is absolutely nothing compared to issues of mass consumption. There are huge floating patches of plastic waste our oceans, being swallowed by sea life, killing fish and making its way into our food supply. There are massive lakes of sludge in Chinese and South Pacific factory cities used to…

Isn't the end goal convincing the population at large to reduce their consumption habits, even in the face of a competitive culture where success == greater and better consumption? I mean even if we dismantled Apple, Samsung, Intel today another company would gladly step in to sell to people who are addicted to convenience, novelty and find meaning in purchasing things.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#172

Post by Kaiyou »

akudha wrote: post #109
PaulHoule wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that markets for commodities are always volatile. That is, recycling plastic X might be very profitable in 2015 and not at all be profitable in 2019. It is the same problem that producers of oil, aluminum and everything else have from time to time. Prices go up and prices go down.

I understand commerce makes the world go around, but why is anything and everything always measured in terms of profit and loss? We know plastic sucks and we know we need to reduce its usage, and yet we are still primarily talking about these things in terms of profit and loss, instead of talking about these problems in terms of welfare/sustainability/survival of this planet?

It's because money is something that can persuade people to do things they don't actually want to do. Persuasion has a better track record of sustainability than force. The easiest way to facilitate change is to make that change profitable.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#173

Post by Spooky23 »

phkahler wrote: post #69
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your swift and comprehensive reply. I wasn’t aware plastics could be burned and the exhaust contained / treated / whatever.

Burning plastic is perhaps not ideal. But I'd guess it's better than pretending to recycle it while actually dumping it somewhere.

Not really. You dump lots of nasty material into the air, and then are left with lots of nasty byproduct that needs to be dumped somewhere.

The way to deal with plastic, especially packaging is to have a regulatory framework that makes it more expensive than putting it in a cardboard box.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#174

Post by bunderbunder »

quakeguy wrote: post #49
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

You are absolutly right. To others seeing this comment, i‘d recommend you watch the Documentary named „Plastic China“. It is on YT, but you support the makers here: https://www.plasticchina.org We need to stop plastic polluttion now, or im afraid the earths ecosystem will collapse sooner or later.

> We need to stop plastic polluttion now, or im afraid the earths ecosystem will collapse sooner or later.

I'm afraid that if we hurry into it, there will be all sorts of unintended consequences. I also suspect that it's harder than we realize to keep track of what building houses the nuclear reactor and which one is the bike shed.

Going from plastic soda bottles back to glass ones, for example, would probably be an environmental disaster. It takes so very much energy to manufacture glass, and it takes so very much fuel to truck it around. I think, rather than micro-focusing on one specific bogeyman, what I'd really like to see is an attack on packaging-related waste and pollution in general.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#175

Post by Spooky23 »

Pristina wrote: post #110
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

What annoys me is the consistent blaming on the 'industry' and 'profit' when industries only make thins people buy. So why do people use single-use plastic? Because they are lazy, and it's convenient.

Because they don't have a choice.

Scenario: I need to buy some water or milk. I go to the market... what are my options? My grocer does not provide water in plastic or metal bottles, and no longer provides cardboard milk cartons.

Scenario: I need a quart of oil for my car. Packaging options are: 32oz PET bottle.

Scenario: I need a laptop computer. I order it online. There is no way for me to tell what packaging is used. I open the box and the laptop is protected by polystyrene and accessories are in taped plastic bags.

As a diligent consumer, wtf am I supposed to do?

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#176

Post by 49para »

djsumdog wrote: post #84
quakeguy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutly right. To others seeing this comment, i‘d recommend you watch the Documentary named „Plastic China“. It is on YT, but you support the makers here: https://www.plasticchina.org We need to stop plastic polluttion now, or im afraid the earths ecosystem will collapse sooner or later.

I feel like the debate on human induced climate change is a red haring. It's so abstract, it basically invites conflict and CO2 is absolutely nothing compared to issues of mass consumption. There are huge floating patches of plastic waste our oceans, being swallowed by sea life, killing fish and making its way into our food supply. There are massive lakes of sludge in Chinese and South Pacific factory cities used to…

You had me at "Overal consumption needs to stop" but lost me at "convincing the people who run...".

The people required to make the changes are the "consumers" not the people running the companies. Companies will respond to DEMAND and nothing else.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#177

Post by Spooky23 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #141
Pristina wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the only option because it's the best option. Without plastic what would you package things with? Everything is shit by comparison.

It's a problem of scale, convenience, hygiene, etc. "back in the day" stuff like paper bags or waxed paper was a lot more common, but the volumes were also much lower, the availability of luxuries like idk, takeaway food and soda was much lower, etc. Going back will mean going to the market, getting fresh vegetables and potatoes and shit, and put them in either paper bags or reused burlap sacks. I think an individual…

The new packaging products aren't better, just cheaper. And volumes of vegetable sales have only increased.

My brother worked produce when they switched from paper to plastic packaging. Moisture issues ruin lots and lots of produce at a much higher rate in the plastic.

The other driver is the industrialization and centralization of production. You need plastic packaging and controlled delivery to ship your produce from irrigated desert in California to Maine. Of course in the process you kill off all of the regionalized produce growers as the whole supply chain needs to adapt.

Even meats are this way. Meat is packaged in plastic because the industry was allowed to consolidate to a few fly-over states with awful labor practices. When I was a kid in NYC, whole sides of beef were delivered and cut in the supermarket or butcher. No packaging required until retail, and retail packaging was mostly paper. Now some dis-assembly worker butchers meat in Colorado or Iowa, which must be shipped in cyrovac plastic to the retailer.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#178

Post by emiliobumachar »

triplewipeass wrote: post #61
sykic wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic is not a great material for the environment and your comment illustrates the crux of the issue for humanity. We tend to optimize for local maxima and not global ones. As other commenters have pointed out pricing in externalities would be a great step forward. Plastic shampoo containers may not be so great in your eyes if their cost became prohibitively expensive.

Plastic is a great material for some uses, but it’s also a very durable material. I’d love to purchase shampoo in the form of a refill of the plastic shampoo bottle I’ve already purchased some months ago. Why buy a new bottle every time? That’s the part which doesn’t make sense.

What would the refill package look like?

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#179

Post by growlist »

Brain_Thief wrote: post #162
scatters wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is investing in one's pension or retirement fund "competitive wealth-hoarding"?

I may be misinterpreting your question, but it seems as though you're equating the average worker's retirement fund investments to what the GP was most likely referring to: large investors who compose what we commonly refer to as the "ownership class" and who are most certainly engaged in a perverse form of wealth hording at the cost of any apparent negative externalities. The two classes of investor are not remotely…

I couldn't put it better.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#180

Post by vict00ms »

bunderbunder wrote: post #174
quakeguy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutly right. To others seeing this comment, i‘d recommend you watch the Documentary named „Plastic China“. It is on YT, but you support the makers here: https://www.plasticchina.org We need to stop plastic polluttion now, or im afraid the earths ecosystem will collapse sooner or later.

> We need to stop plastic polluttion now, or im afraid the earths ecosystem will collapse sooner or later. I'm afraid that if we hurry into it, there will be all sorts of unintended consequences. I also suspect that it's harder than we realize to keep track of what building houses the nuclear reactor and which one is the bike shed. Going from plastic soda bottles back to glass ones, for example, would probably be an…

> Going from plastic soda bottles back to glass ones, for example, would probably be an environmental disaster.

This is only true if said glass bottles were not reusable (and their reuse wasn't compelled in some fashion).

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