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China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

reuters.com

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Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#141

Post by Tepix »

ulfw wrote: post #122
quanticle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. I would. The FAA grounded the Boeing 787 after some widely publicized battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_... . I would assume that they would do the same thing here, if this also turned out to be a widespread issue not related to aircraft maintenance or pilot tr…

Please don't try to change history. The FAA only took action after the Japanese (the only major operators at the time) stopped flying them. The same FAA who is in bed with Boeing I might say. Where in the world can you self-certify anything? What's the point of getting certified if you can do it yourself? Reminds me of self-grading in school. That was only in classes noone ever cared about. https://www.seattletimes.c…

German car manufacturers self-certify the CO2 exhausts.

TEPCO certifies their Japanese nuclear plants.

Works great, doesn't it?

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#142

Post by Rooster61 »

dis-sys wrote: post #74
Johnny555 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cause of this crash hasn't been determined, some witnesses described seeing flames before the plane hit the ground, so it's entirely possible that a cargo hold fire took the plane down. the black box should be relatively easy to find (assuming it survived), so investigators should have a better idea about the cause soon.

> The cause of this crash hasn't been determined that is the exact reason why all 737 Max should be immediately grounded for a full investigation. or are you suggesting to further risk lives just to protect the interests of a company which had two of its brand new jets crashed in 6 months? Will you defend a Russian/Chinese manufacturer posing similar obvious fatal risks to the public when FAA orders all of them to be…

> Will you defend a Russian/Chinese manufacturer posing similar obvious fatal risks to the public when FAA orders all of them to be grounded in the US?

The person you are replying to made no reference to the countries/governments involved. Please do not assume someone's argument is politically charged if they have said nothing to imply that it is. It assumes the worst of people with no impetus.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#143

Post by Sebb767 »

hohohmm wrote: post #29

It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. Would you fly 737 max8 tomorrow? Anybody who knows anything about Chinese aviation industry knows that it is severely government-regulated industry and the top 1 priority is safety. It has better records than the American counterpart. While BOEING(being one of the pillars of American industry) might twist arms in co…

> A thorough investigation means potentially losing hundreds of billions of dollars.

I mean, even from a financial perspective: If a third one crashes, Boeing can deliver its 737 max8 to the graveyard. Not to mention the lost trust by ignoring the obvious signs.

It is possible that these two crashes are unrelated and that it's simply bad luck that it hit the 737 max8 two times. But that's are serious gamble with the reputation, not even considering possible fines and lawsuits.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#144

Post by gruez »

PaulHoule wrote: post #124

What people are forgetting here is that the 737 Max is an airplane that is designed to make flying more miserable even if you survive the flight. The common seat layout of the Max 8 squeezes in more rows for a worse experience. Compare the 737 to the Embrarer 175 - the Embrarer is a much smaller plane but it has an elliptical fuselage so that you can stand up comfortably in it and also not get a crick in your neck fr…

> breathe toxic fumes

Elaborate?

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#145

Post by leemailll »

AnssiH wrote: post #25
sch78 wrote: post #10

this article came a month back: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/world/asia/lion-air-plane...

The most interesting tidbit for me was: > Boeing decided to feed M.C.A.S. with data from only one of the two angle of attack sensors at a time, depending on which of two, redundant flight control computers — one on the captain’s side, one on the first officer’s side — happened to be active on that flight.

that’s unbelievable, it clearly disobey the redundancy in the design of plane.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#146

Post by ardy42 »

hohohmm wrote: post #29

It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. Would you fly 737 max8 tomorrow? Anybody who knows anything about Chinese aviation industry knows that it is severely government-regulated industry and the top 1 priority is safety. It has better records than the American counterpart. While BOEING(being one of the pillars of American industry) might twist arms in co…

> It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety.

It doesn't befuddle me. China has a bit of a history of using safety regulations as a pretext for political and trade retaliation. China and the US are currently in a tariff war, and Boeing airplanes happen to be one of the US's biggest exports to China. While the FAA might not be perfectly independent, I'm pretty sure it's more politically independent than most Chinese government institutions. I'm actually surprised they didn't take an action like this sooner.

Here's a recent article that outlines some other examples of China using safety regulations to retaliate:

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/03/06/world/asia/ap-as...

> China said Wednesday that it is blocking some imports of the agricultural product canola from Canada because of fears of insect infestation.

> The move, which comes amid heightened tensions over Canada's arrest of a Chinese tech executive, is seen by some as a new tactic to seek leverage over Ottawa....

> [The foreign ministry spokesman] cited "harmful organisms" that he did not identify further, and said China's government "needs to protect the health and safety of its own people."...

> Canadian Agriculture Minister Marie-Claude Bibeau said in a statement that the Canadian Food Inspection Agency conducted investigations after China issued notices of non-compliance on canola seed imports, including nine since January. She said the agency had not identified any pests or bacteria of concern....

> China, whose rapid growth has made it an important market for many countries, has a history of using commercial retaliation against those at odds with Beijing.

> The most recent high-profile target was South Korean retailer Lotte, which sold land to the Seoul government for a U.S. anti-missile system opposed by Beijing. Authorities closed most of the company's 99 supermarkets and other outlets — often alleging safety violations — and a theme park project.

> China suspended a trade deal with Norway and restricted imports of Norwegian salmon after the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Chinese political prisoner Liu Xiaobo in 2010. It stopped buying fruit from the Philippines during a dispute over territory in the South China Sea. Britain and other countries also faced retaliation over meetings with Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, considered a dangerous separatist by Beijing.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#147

Post by joncrane »

dschuler wrote: post #15

People seem to think this is a political move by the China, which may be true, but this is actually what they're supposed to do. According to the article, 96 737 MAX jets are operated by Chinese airlines, and the aircraft appears to be racking up a questionable safety record. I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. Lauda Air flight 004 [0] c…

Cool fact: Niki Lauda is a former F1 driver who is most famous for having severe facial and lung damage from a fiery crash, then returning while his burns were still healing.

The doctors said he still had more operations to undergo to complete his recovery, but when pressed, admitted that the additional operations were for cosmetic reasons and would not affect his ability to drive.

He raced in F1 races with open wounds weeping into his balaclava.

To this day he's known for having only half an ear on one side and very little hair on his head, but until last year when he had a severe lung problem (likely as a consequence of his aforementioned accident)he happily appeared in public at F1 races.

He retired from F1 to focus on his airline, but un-retired and won another F1 championship.

He ran his airline for a while but now is more of a public figure for one of the F1 teams.

The Ron Howard movie Rush is a great treatment of his time in F1.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#148

Post by unethical_ban »

Tepix wrote: post #141
ulfw wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't try to change history. The FAA only took action after the Japanese (the only major operators at the time) stopped flying them. The same FAA who is in bed with Boeing I might say. Where in the world can you self-certify anything? What's the point of getting certified if you can do it yourself? Reminds me of self-grading in school. That was only in classes noone ever cared about. https://www.seattletimes.c…

German car manufacturers self-certify the CO2 exhausts. TEPCO certifies their Japanese nuclear plants. Works great, doesn't it?

It was NOx, and they didn't self certify, they cheated the tests.

Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft

#149

Post by appleflaxen »

Not only is this an appropriate (and probably correct - time will tell) reaction by China, but it represents the Chinese government taking consumer safety and health more seriously than the US.

Does anyone know if this is the first such example?

They've come a long way from the scandal of having melamine in the milk.

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