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India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

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Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#151

Post by mrpopo »

azernik wrote: post #137
mrpopo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just throwing more (fossil fuel) energy into collecting and burning avoidable trash and into building more structures to accomodate it. How is that "top notch"? This might solve the short-term plastic pollution issue, but goes against all recommendations for climate change mitigation. It's time to start considering CO2 emissions as our transparent, unmanageable trash. Each Singaporean is generating 10 tonnes…

Incineration actually recovers energy from trash - plastics are made from fairly complex petrochemicals, and so have a decent energy content. The climate change issue is that, when burning it, you release carbon just like when burning any other fossil fuel.

Technically, it's even worse than other fossil fuels, because of all the extra steps involved in the plastic life-cycle, increasing its carbon footprint.

Waste-to-energy is a growing part of Singapore's energy mix, and that's not exciting news.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#152

Post by Haga »

titzer wrote: post #138
tsimionescu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While being low-hanging fruit, these things are also fully irrelevant. If the entire world stopped using them tomorrow, it would barely be a blip on any climate model or ocean pollution model.

Wearing the dressings of smart people, we do nothing, while telling others to do nothing, because the something they would do would be a "blip."

It's all about didcussionshifting away from government who could enforce change for all to the individual which is sure to fall

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#153

Post by wtmt »

quakeguy wrote: post #49
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

You are absolutly right. To others seeing this comment, i‘d recommend you watch the Documentary named „Plastic China“. It is on YT, but you support the makers here: https://www.plasticchina.org We need to stop plastic polluttion now, or im afraid the earths ecosystem will collapse sooner or later.

"A Plastic Ocean" [1] is also a good documentary that deals with how most of the plastic that's used and thrown gets into the oceans and affects people. It touches upon some communities that try to recycle these, much to the detriment of their own health.

[1]: https://plasticoceans.org/about-a-plastic-ocean/

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#154

Post by azernik »

ScottBurson wrote: post #30
trophycase wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, similar to how certain organisms make a niche out of decomposing other creatures, it seems like all the garbage we produce should contain enough "economic free energy" so to speak, in order to properly recycle most of our waste. Also I mostly agree with your point about externalities. I think a large portion of the evils of capitalism can be attributed to mispriced externalities, but certainly not a…

What would be an example of an evil of capitalism that is not attributable to mispriced externalities? I have trouble coming up with one myself.

Monopolies that underproduce/underinnovate.

The 2008 crash involved a combination of a principal-agent problem (between mortgage underwriters and the ultimate sources of capital that bought the CDOs) and the limits of the market as a transmitter of reliable information.

The market does not by default transmit its signals in a way that humans respond optimally to (not even from the point of view of their interests). e.g. people discount the future gas savings of a slightly more expensive car in a way that implies an implicit interest rate much higher than the actual one.

The market assigns the power to consume (money) in ways that do not reflect actual human values - i.e. the decision that someone whose skills are in demand should be able to consume 4x what their neighbor can, rather than 2x, is not a question of efficiency but of values, and when it comes to the high and low ends the market's values are inhuman.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#155

Post by darkpuma »

noufalibrahim wrote: post #117
djsumdog wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the debate on human induced climate change is a red haring. It's so abstract, it basically invites conflict and CO2 is absolutely nothing compared to issues of mass consumption. There are huge floating patches of plastic waste our oceans, being swallowed by sea life, killing fish and making its way into our food supply. There are massive lakes of sludge in Chinese and South Pacific factory cities used to…

A low hanging fruit in the attempt to reduce consumption (which is the only real solution) is to stop single-use items. e.g. paper napkins, straws, carry bags from the local grocery shops etc. Just assuming that it's biodegradable or being recycled doesn't take into account the amount of energy and materials that went into production which are just wasted since the items are not reused.

Shallow ecology measures like that are more PR stunts than meaningful action.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#156

Post by Nursie »

sagartewari01 wrote: post #85
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

Because it will be inconvenient. It's like an unspoken agreement between us, "listen pal, if everyone does it, noone can be held accountable, and if you stop, it will be useless effort since everyone else will keep doing it". The second statement is used very often to justify the lazy decisions our fragile mind takes.

> The second statement is used very often to justify the lazy decisions our fragile mind takes.

Unfortunately it's also true, in a sort of self-fulfilling prediction kinda way.

And even if not, and it remains true for the majority of others, what have you done? Put in a load of extra effort and made your own life more difficult, but achieved nothing.

This is why collective action at the state level is necessary.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#157

Post by darkpuma »

xfitm3 wrote: post #47
elchief wrote: post #28

Saw this on my feed today: A relatively painless guide to cutting plastic out of your life https://www.fastcompany.com/90312169

The article suggests glass shampoo bottles? No thanks. Plastic is a great material, it is just abused.

Shampoo is a scam anyway. I've started using a bar of soap on my hair and it's just as clean and soft as it ever was. Just lather it in your hands before scrubbing your hair.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#158

Post by MandieD »

titzer wrote: post #146
mjevans wrote: post #143

Single stream recycling is a really poor idea. A better set of ideas that might actually help: Reduce - as suggested elsewhere, eliminate parts of the packaging that aren't strictly required (outer seals, etc). Reuse * Create a set of standardized, rugged, containers that seal around foods. * Actually use them to pack foods in standard containers. * Which are then returned for cleaning and reuse. Recycle * Many bins,…

> * Create a set of standardized, rugged, containers that seal around foods. We used to actually have this: it was wooden/plastic crates and boxes, pallets, burlap bags, and glass milk/juice/beer bottles. We're moving backwards, and it's all due to economics. Reuse of those materials back then was motivated by the cost and difficulty of producing those containers. It simply was not economically feasible to produce a…

Germany and neighbors still do some deposit bottles and jars, and at least in Germany, are better at the re-intake than they were 15 years ago.

Unfortunately, we've also lied to ourselves about our Gelbesacks (packaging recycling bags) to the extent that there are a lot more things in single-use containers and a lot of fruit and veggies are in pre-weighed, plastic-wrapped packages.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#159

Post by MisterTea »

titzer wrote: post #138
tsimionescu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While being low-hanging fruit, these things are also fully irrelevant. If the entire world stopped using them tomorrow, it would barely be a blip on any climate model or ocean pollution model.

Wearing the dressings of smart people, we do nothing, while telling others to do nothing, because the something they would do would be a "blip."

> Wearing the dressings of smart people, we do nothing, while telling others to do nothing, because the something they would do would be a "blip."

Talk is cheap. If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. The only way to effect change is to work towards it yourself and gently encourage others to do so. Be prepared to make sacrifices and/or compromises (this is what stops most people, humans are selfish and lazy).

Don't like plastic waste? Make an effort to reduce it. Take reusable cloth bags with you when shopping. A big trend among young people today is takeout food. It seems that fewer and fewer people cook for themselves. This is a massive source of plastic waste. Don't buy new gizmos just because they are new or for status. Use things until they break. Then fix them until they cant be fixed.

Just imagine if everyone stopped talking a good game and started taking small steps to making the world a better place.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#160

Post by jefurii »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #141
Pristina wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the only option because it's the best option. Without plastic what would you package things with? Everything is shit by comparison.

It's a problem of scale, convenience, hygiene, etc. "back in the day" stuff like paper bags or waxed paper was a lot more common, but the volumes were also much lower, the availability of luxuries like idk, takeaway food and soda was much lower, etc. Going back will mean going to the market, getting fresh vegetables and potatoes and shit, and put them in either paper bags or reused burlap sacks. I think an individual…

Can't believe I'm speaking in support of McD here but last time I went the only plastic was the straws and cup lids - everything else was paper.
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