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Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#201

Post by 8bithero »

RickS wrote: post #65
leed25d wrote: post #6

My advice to yo is to hire an assistant who is capable of teaching you these things. Unshakable trust will be needed on both side. Try to find someone like a recently mustered out Army Ranger. I am not kidding.

I think this is an impractical first step, but for the downvoters, executive coaching – including specifically ex-mil coaching – is a real thing that people do and get value from. If you want to get such experience without sourcing and paying a coach, read Jocko's Extreme Ownership: https://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Ownership-U-S-Navy-SEALs/dp/1... Marc Andreessen called this out as the book he gifts most often, which I…

Hehe, I also recommended the same book in my reply. Definitely, a must read! :p

What do you mean when you say, you "found the book a bit difficult"? As in tedious to read, or difficult to implement?

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#202

Post by borski »

School-Cotton wrote: post #197
borski wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that I'm not their boss; of course I am, pretty much by definition. I'm higher up on the hierarchy (context: I'm a cofounder and CTO) The point I'm trying to make isn't that I'm not their boss, but that by virtue of great employees being hard to find, it's my job to keep them happy and productive. Not just productive, but happy is important too. It costs the company way more to find a new employee than to ke…

Right, that's the ideal of a good boss , but a boss, nonetheless. I think we agree about more than we disagree about, here. I just think words can be important, and when someone in a position of hierarchical power, no matter how benevolently they wield it, says things like "really, they're MY boss", it might be intended completely harmlessly, but can actually come off as patronizing.

I suspect we agree on the concept as well.

That’s the thing about colloquialisms; they’re not meant to be taken literally.

For example, the phrase “kicked the bucket” does not literally mean a foot had come into contact with a bucket. Similarly, to say that I have 13 bosses does not literally mean that I have 13 people above me in the hierarchy. It is a colloquialism used to describe a feeling and intention, rather than a literal description.

Perhaps it would be patronizing to say that without explaining what I meant, but I do explain that, in the same comment. Lastly, in many ways, they do control their own fate - that is, they can choose to leave if they’re unhappy, and be happier elsewhere. In that way, because they are in no way conscripted (at least in the State of California), you could make the argument that they control my actions. That may be a specious argument. I’m not certain. But one perhaps worth exploring.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#203

Post by marktangotango »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #163
marktangotango wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that you’re actually advocating for this type of “lord of the flies” culture. It actually indicates your org doesn’t have clear direction or technical competence (imo). I’d personally be wary of joining such a company. I’ve been a part of too many directionless zombies myself.

This might be the most uncharitable reading possible of what they wrote. Having people advocate for different decisions hardly means that the company is a “directionless zombie”. In fact, it’s exactly the opposite. Having a culture where people don’t advocate for something but just go along with whatever is handed down to them from on high sounds a lot more zombie-like to me.

I guess I’ve worked on to many apps that resulted from this sort of thing, over the course of years. In reality, everyone gets a voice and every opinion matters devolves to the vocal minority doing what they want, damn the consequences. Similar to online discussion forums really. It’s almost tautological that this vocal minority does NOT have the best interest of the product or company in mind, but only their own self aggrandizement and careerism.

Somebody at the top ought to have a vision and ability to work with feedback from real customers with real needs to deliver a product that users love and continue to pay for.

If you write an app idiots can use, idiots will

A fabulously illustrative email sig from the type of people who “win” in these orgs.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#204

Post by king_panic »

king_panic wrote: post #138

I am an app developer who interfaces with c-suite executives weekly. Every time I get into the weeds with them I lose their attention. EVERY time. They don't care about the technical aspects of my solutions, they care about what it means to their customers functionality, the price they pay for the solution or the time it takes a product to be delivered. So I put things in those terms. I NEVER get very technical anymo…

Here's a useful signal: If you are getting crickets or curt responses ("ok", "great") after you finish speaking, then you are not talking their language.

This was the first sign I wasn't communicating effectively in my client-facing role.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#205

Post by unfocused »

Here is one pointer. Your Question is: "How do I develop or change the way I talk as a leader?"

* Lead with your point first. The above question should've been first in your HN post. Try it yourself. Cut the above line, put it first, and then the rest of the text, and reread your HN entry.

* When you start writing with your point first, you start practicing how you should write/talk to higher ups.

* Once you get better at writing point first, you then should start speaking point first.

* When you speak point first, you will grab attention. Once the attention is there, only then can you go into detail, should you be asked to go further into detail.

Examples for your question:

People Issues:

(GOOD): We may have to replace so and so. ... then proceed why so and so is not performing as a conversation.

Do not start with: (BAD) So and so is getting on my nerves. I asked him to write the code for widget and he keeps not reading the APIs and going off the tracks blah blah blah.

The same applies for operational matters. Start with the point, and if details are asked of you, then keep going. It's a conversation, not a one sided rant.

I won't add to the numerous books and links that people have added of "great" leaders and how to be a great leader because there a lot of good ones in this thread.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#206

Post by m33k44 »

nlawalker wrote: post #64

A piece of simple, concrete, implementable advice I read recently that I really like is "communicate in the language of options , not demands, imperatives, requests, or preferences." Imagine yourself having a conversation with your manager or someone in a relatively similar position about a decision or suggestion you have. How often do you say things like "we have to", "we need to", "we really should", "can we", or "…

The way I do it is mention the options and my preferred option with the justification on why my preference is better. That shows that I have thought through the problem and possible solutions carefully.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#208

Post by CloudNetworking »

My only advice based on the information you have provided is you shouldn't go to your manager with "people or operational issues", you should go to him only when you need him to unblock something so you can apply your solutions to "people or operational issues". In other words, don't bring him your problems.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#209

Post by nunobrito »

rsp1984 wrote: post #160
nlawalker wrote: post #64

A piece of simple, concrete, implementable advice I read recently that I really like is "communicate in the language of options , not demands, imperatives, requests, or preferences." Imagine yourself having a conversation with your manager or someone in a relatively similar position about a decision or suggestion you have. How often do you say things like "we have to", "we need to", "we really should", "can we", or "…

Given the support for this answer I will likely get downvoted for this, but I disagree with this advice. I am a co-founder (and CTO) of a small company myself and hence get to talk to the folks in my company quite regularly. I disagree with the notion that passion or personal preference doesn't belong in a decision-making process. Not only does it belong there, it is even a critical part of it, assuming of course tha…

There seems to be a confusion or overlap between what a CTO and a CEO needs to do in terms of leadership, they have different audiences.

While CTOs are expected to be heavily technical and fact based, CEOs often negotiate based on feelings, trust, wrong data and emotions with other parties (mostly non-tech) where it does make sense to open several options.

Any engineer growing into leadership will increasingly need to deal with non-tech people that will find the strong engineering opinions as leaving them out of the decision process, and subsequently be offended by that fact.

CTOs have little resilience to bullshit, they aren't known for soft-skills either and tend to be seen as leading the pack. There is a fine line of what being a leader means, depending very much on who your audience is.

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