India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports • Hacker News Board

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#31

Post by Pfhreak » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

Is a problem that we use a single label ('recycling') to describe many different efforts with different outcomes? E.g. paper and aluminum recycling seem to result in products being efficiently returned to use. While some mixed recycling basically gets routed to landfills?

Edit: Agree on turning off the tap. That's the primary thing we need to focus on.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#32

Post by hbarka » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:41 PM UTC

What happened to the futuristic plasma furnaces that were supposed to be able to melt all this stuff into elemental components?

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#33

Post by Nasrudith » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

I wonder about garbage and recycling why we don't see more sorted stockpiles in a "junkyard" ethos for "might be worth something in the future when resource extraction vs new costs" change. My best guess is that the sorting is too expensive.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#34

Post by mrob » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

ScottBurson wrote: post #30

trophycase wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, similar to how certain organisms make a niche out of decomposing other creatures, it seems like all the garbage we produce should contain enough "economic free energy" so to speak, in order to properly recycle most of our waste. Also I mostly agree with your point about externalities. I think a large portion of the evils of capitalism can be attributed to mispriced externalities, but certainly not a…

What would be an example of an evil of capitalism that is not attributable to mispriced externalities? I have trouble coming up with one myself.

Somebody could be born, by no fault of their own, with a rare disease that would cost more to treat than they can realistically earn, and which insurers can easily detect as a pre-existing condition.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#35

Post by itissid » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

I have seen a few biodegradable things used for takeout like in chipotle. Can someone tell me why those are not more popular in at least some processed food, e.g. my hummus.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#36

Post by WheelsAtLarge » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

India should have done this long ago.

Recycling items is way harder than it needs to be.

First companies need to re-engineer their products to minimize the solid waste and maximize recyclability

Second, people need to easily understand what can be recycled and what can not so they can make an informed decision

Third, communities should not have the option to ship out their waste and have someone else deal with the problem. By shipping out their problems they never have to deal with the consequences.

Solid waste is as much pollution as smog has been in large cities. Clean air laws have changed the whole environment in cites like Los Angeles.It's time we start doing the same with solid waste.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#37

Post by cdolan » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

There is a powerful (sub?)culture in the business world based upon proclaiming your company is sustainable. LEED is actually part of the problem in a way.

The metrics are based on unimportant factors like “diversion” (meaning it was dumped in a foreign country as “recycling” rather than safely burned or land filled), and the measurements are almost All estimates.

It will be a long road to change a culture that demands “recycling” simply because a politician or CEO committed to “Zero Waste by 20X0”, and the recycling rate must always go up year over year.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#38

Post by ggm » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

sydd wrote: post #10

ggm wrote: post #3

Presumably people notice this is explicitly targetting the consequences of China banning them the same way: when china moved, the feedstock moved to India.

I guess that it will move now sadly to other poor countries in the far East or Africa

I think that it's moving to incineration domestically. Thats the trend here in Australia, combined heat and power is being touted as probably better (the smoke is an issue, the ash is an issue)

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#39

Post by frankbreetz » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:48 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #21

nothrabannosir wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's all about the packaging industry and profit. Everything is about profit. The invention of the assembly line was about profit. Toothpaste is about profit. YC companies are about profit. It’s how our society works, and it’s not enough to just claim it’s about profit and call it a day. Good things are also about profit. What makes this bad? The lack of pricing in negative externalities. That is the root of all ca…

Before the neoliberal revolution globally, and the Thatcher+Reagan dogma, there was an awful lot that was not about profit that did not require a communist state. Things were done "for the good of the nation/town", or just because it was thought good to do. The NHS was not about profit. Flowers outside the town hall were not about profit. Nor were youth clubs, libraries, parks or a free town swimming pool. It is the…

I agree with you completely. Imagine if Libraries didn't already exist and the US Government tried to implement a Public Library. Fox New would have a field day.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#40

Post by frafra » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 10:50 PM UTC

avip wrote: post #17

olliej wrote: post #5

Eventually those of us in America and Europe will have to start actually recycling rather than just saying we are while shipping it to other countries. Obviously part of the solution is going to necessarily require companies stop putting so much waste packaging on products.

We need reducing, not recycling. Recycling is an amazingly inefficient and polluting solution to a problem that should not exist (in its current magnitude) in a sanely-managed planet.

Let's not overgeneralize. There are many recycling that do not export garbage elsewhere and they are profitable. Recycling metals is easy and works well for example; it is not inefficient nor dirty.

Avoid producing waste, reuse, recycle, incinerate it, final disposal (or reuse in concrete etc): that's the chain to follow, and each part is important.