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India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

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Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#21

Post by NeedMoreTea »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #15
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

> It's all about the packaging industry and profit. Everything is about profit. The invention of the assembly line was about profit. Toothpaste is about profit. YC companies are about profit. It’s how our society works, and it’s not enough to just claim it’s about profit and call it a day. Good things are also about profit. What makes this bad? The lack of pricing in negative externalities. That is the root of all ca…

Before the neoliberal revolution globally, and the Thatcher+Reagan dogma, there was an awful lot that was not about profit that did not require a communist state. Things were done "for the good of the nation/town", or just because it was thought good to do. The NHS was not about profit. Flowers outside the town hall were not about profit. Nor were youth clubs, libraries, parks or a free town swimming pool.

It is the fashion, and it is a fashion, for small government that comes with neoliberalism which has made everything about profit. Most countries (as opposed to shareholders) are worse off in many ways as a result. Not every state sale provided benefit, nor every privatised industry more efficient.

I fully agree that pricing in externalities and environmental costs should be in all goods. Nothing to do with profit though. It's the only way to compare in a market economy. I also tend to sympathy with Keynes in aspiring for a middle ground somewhere between rampant market dystopia and communist dystopia.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#22

Post by NullPrefix »

PaulHoule wrote: post #18
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

Part of the problem is that markets for commodities are always volatile. That is, recycling plastic X might be very profitable in 2015 and not at all be profitable in 2019. It is the same problem that producers of oil, aluminum and everything else have from time to time. Prices go up and prices go down.

Subsidies would help with that.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#23

Post by trophycase »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #15
andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

> It's all about the packaging industry and profit. Everything is about profit. The invention of the assembly line was about profit. Toothpaste is about profit. YC companies are about profit. It’s how our society works, and it’s not enough to just claim it’s about profit and call it a day. Good things are also about profit. What makes this bad? The lack of pricing in negative externalities. That is the root of all ca…

You're not wrong, similar to how certain organisms make a niche out of decomposing other creatures, it seems like all the garbage we produce should contain enough "economic free energy" so to speak, in order to properly recycle most of our waste.

Also I mostly agree with your point about externalities. I think a large portion of the evils of capitalism can be attributed to mispriced externalities, but certainly not all of it.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#24

Post by hutzlibu »

avip wrote: post #17
olliej wrote: post #5

Eventually those of us in America and Europe will have to start actually recycling rather than just saying we are while shipping it to other countries. Obviously part of the solution is going to necessarily require companies stop putting so much waste packaging on products.

We need reducing, not recycling. Recycling is an amazingly inefficient and polluting solution to a problem that should not exist (in its current magnitude) in a sanely-managed planet.

"We need reducing, not recycling."

Why not more of both?

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#25

Post by benj111 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

There are companies (in India) buying the plastic though.

So there obviously value being extracted. This isn't a story of the 1st world paying to get rid of their waste.

I agree with you in general. We should be generating less waste and recycling and we should be taking responsibility for that waste and recycling. I would stop short of cutting out the 3rd world from the opportunity to benefit from the opportunities waste and recycling bring though. Theres money to be made, they have the ability to compete. We developed nations shouldn't let it become a race to the bottom though. If China wants clean pure plastics, we should be willing to supply that.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#26

Post by Razengan »

sydd wrote: post #9
leggomylibro wrote: post #6

I wonder if this trend will inspire more people to look into DIY recycling. Plastics are pretty easy to melt down and reuse, if you know what sort of plastic you are working with. You should research the types of recycleable plastics and how they are marked[0] - some types can release toxic fumes which are bad for both you and the planet. I've heard you can develop allergies to plastics from breathing some of the nas…

You can buy a machine for $300 that recycles plastic at home for your 3D printer. https://www.filastruder.com/collections/filastruders-accesso...

In the game FTL, the universal currency is "scrap", presumably because of 3D printers/fabricators/replicators that can turn it into anything else.

[0] https://subsetgames.com/ftl.html

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#27

Post by benj111 »

avip wrote: post #17
olliej wrote: post #5

Eventually those of us in America and Europe will have to start actually recycling rather than just saying we are while shipping it to other countries. Obviously part of the solution is going to necessarily require companies stop putting so much waste packaging on products.

We need reducing, not recycling. Recycling is an amazingly inefficient and polluting solution to a problem that should not exist (in its current magnitude) in a sanely-managed planet.

Well it is "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" and in that order

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#30

Post by ScottBurson »

trophycase wrote: post #23
nothrabannosir wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's all about the packaging industry and profit. Everything is about profit. The invention of the assembly line was about profit. Toothpaste is about profit. YC companies are about profit. It’s how our society works, and it’s not enough to just claim it’s about profit and call it a day. Good things are also about profit. What makes this bad? The lack of pricing in negative externalities. That is the root of all ca…

You're not wrong, similar to how certain organisms make a niche out of decomposing other creatures, it seems like all the garbage we produce should contain enough "economic free energy" so to speak, in order to properly recycle most of our waste. Also I mostly agree with your point about externalities. I think a large portion of the evils of capitalism can be attributed to mispriced externalities, but certainly not a…

What would be an example of an evil of capitalism that is not attributable to mispriced externalities? I have trouble coming up with one myself.
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