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GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

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Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#231

Post by conanbatt »

yardie wrote: post #213
conanbatt wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’d still prefer the state over private insurance companies (Medicare is well run and popular). And I vote accordingly. Thats perfectly reasonable, but no need to make a single payer system for that. Just allow medicare to compete in the open market. Thats a much smaller program with a lot less risk. Unfortunately the chances of such a plan to succeed are nil. Thats why big healthcare reform proposals want to stron…

Then the private insurers would be incentivized to recruit healthy patients and dump chronically ill customers into Medicare. I know this because I’ve already heard HR complain about too many pregnancies in a year caused the company contributions to go up.

This is a real economic problem: adverse selection. But universal coverage doesnt solve it, it just makes everyone pay.

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#232

Post by conanbatt »

arcticbull wrote: post #210
conanbatt wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research should be paid by the people with an interest to pay for research. And the government should put as little stops and costs into that process as possible. I would find it better that patents in pharma were eliminated, but also that the FDA approval process should be optional. If you want to save lives, you need to loosen up.

Oh, I see, having a conversation here probably won't be very productive. "If you want to save people, you should just let people try any old untested medical device, procedure or supplement, and wish them the best if that's what they want." That's how you kill people. There's a reason we have an FDA approvals process and it's not because the barbershop surgeons and snake oil salesmen were doing so well that big gover…

> That's how you kill people.

You also kill people by not giving them the medication they would want to get, or making it to expensive for it to exist. There is no "clean-hands" solution on this.

> here's a reason we have an FDA approvals process and it's not because the barbershop surgeons and snake oil salesmen were doing so well that big government needed to step in and ensure we didn't save so many.

Yes, the 1920's of medical licensing, restricting doctors supply, hospital grants etc. You can see how medical expenses became an issue right after that.

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#233

Post by conanbatt »

arcticbull wrote: post #211
conanbatt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purely because of government intervention.. The medicare example is quite an interesting one as well. The US doesn't have the political momentum to let medicare negotiate pharma prices, and before such a basic thing is even changed, you want to hand over the entire health care insurance industry to the government?

Yes. At some point making tiny adjustments to an overwhelmingly backwards and world-leadingly inefficient system is going to be harder than starting fresh.

Okay, but if the small changes were disastrous, whats the guarantee that the big ones will not be?

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#234

Post by toomuchtodo »

conanbatt wrote: post #231
yardie wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the private insurers would be incentivized to recruit healthy patients and dump chronically ill customers into Medicare. I know this because I’ve already heard HR complain about too many pregnancies in a year caused the company contributions to go up.

This is a real economic problem: adverse selection. But universal coverage doesnt solve it, it just makes everyone pay.

That’s exactly what insurance is for, to spread the risk among the entire pool of participants. And the best way to expand the pool as large as possible is with universal healthcare (ie “everyone”).

Everyone pays because everyone should pay.

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#235

Post by conanbatt »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #234
conanbatt wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a real economic problem: adverse selection. But universal coverage doesnt solve it, it just makes everyone pay.

That’s exactly what insurance is for, to spread the risk among the entire pool of participants. And the best way to expand the pool as large as possible is with universal healthcare (ie “everyone”). Everyone pays because everyone should pay.

> Everyone pays because everyone should pay.

But if everyone pays the same you just conceded the entire victory to adverse selection: people that do not participate in a risk pays for the risk in someone else. The most obvious demonstration of this effect is double-paying in countries that have both private and public healthcare services: you pay twice, once for the public you don't use, and then for the private one.

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#236

Post by toomuchtodo »

conanbatt wrote: post #235
toomuchtodo wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly what insurance is for, to spread the risk among the entire pool of participants. And the best way to expand the pool as large as possible is with universal healthcare (ie “everyone”). Everyone pays because everyone should pay.

> Everyone pays because everyone should pay. But if everyone pays the same you just conceded the entire victory to adverse selection: people that do not participate in a risk pays for the risk in someone else. The most obvious demonstration of this effect is double-paying in countries that have both private and public healthcare services: you pay twice, once for the public you don't use, and then for the private one.

Society has some costs you can’t opt out of.

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#237

Post by conanbatt »

dmitriid wrote: post #200
conanbatt wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to work on your reading skills. Focusing on the last: > conanbatt: the price goes up because of regulation > HN: how did regulation make insulin expensive > conanbatt: what makes you unable to import cheap insulin? > HN: Law

Yup. Instead of answering the question “how did regulation make insulin expensive” you did what?

Give an example

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#238

Post by conanbatt »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #236
conanbatt wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone pays because everyone should pay. But if everyone pays the same you just conceded the entire victory to adverse selection: people that do not participate in a risk pays for the risk in someone else. The most obvious demonstration of this effect is double-paying in countries that have both private and public healthcare services: you pay twice, once for the public you don't use, and then for the private one.

Society has some costs you can’t opt out of.

That a common and fine approach, but that doesnt make it cheaper, it makes it a whole lot more expensive.

From my point of view, lowering the expense is the #1 priority. Expanding coverage, and adding new layers of taxation for it will increase expenditures.

There are also many alternatives to adverse selection, my favorite is high deductible plans.

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#239

Post by rosser »

conanbatt wrote: post #232
arcticbull wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I see, having a conversation here probably won't be very productive. "If you want to save people, you should just let people try any old untested medical device, procedure or supplement, and wish them the best if that's what they want." That's how you kill people. There's a reason we have an FDA approvals process and it's not because the barbershop surgeons and snake oil salesmen were doing so well that big gover…

> That's how you kill people. You also kill people by not giving them the medication they would want to get, or making it to expensive for it to exist. There is no "clean-hands" solution on this. > here's a reason we have an FDA approvals process and it's not because the barbershop surgeons and snake oil salesmen were doing so well that big government needed to step in and ensure we didn't save so many. Yes, the 1920…

I wonder what happened to the slope of the graphs for rates of various adverse outcomes over time did right around then, too. I think price, by itself, is an absurdly meaningless metric. If it gets more expensive, but gets better, that's potentially worthwhile.

What's happening in the US healthcare system now, however, is that it's on the order of twice or more as expensive as anyone else's — and climbing — with worse outcomes than many of those, and are getting worse.

No matter your views on who should pay for it, you can't be in favor of that.

Re: GoFundMe CEO: ‘Gigantic Gaps’ in Health System Showing Up in Crowdfunding

#240

Post by jjeaff »

ses1984 wrote: post #162
jjeaff wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the same thing. And they never seem to come to the realization that maybe a lot of their employees are underpaid. No, it's just the ones with stories that go best with violin music playing in the background. And one of the most delusional CEOs was the Hooters guy. He was talking about how he would be perfectly fine with his daughter working at Hooters. Then the manager where he was undercover was found to b…

I think you need to take what you see on reality TV with a grain of salt. That's the size of the moon.

So Hooters worked with the tv show to paint an extremely unflattering picture of their business? Or the show misled viewers and Hooters made no effort to correct the record?
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