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How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

theatlantic.com

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Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#41

Post by jdietrich »

superseeplus wrote: post #14
mrfredward wrote: post #6

>Noise, they have come to understand, is the secondhand smoke of this era. Most of the author's points about sound come down to hand waving and weasel wording. He says hearing loss is "coming up fast on the list" of public health problems (a meaningless assertion), and then he never presents evidence that leaf blowers are a significant cause of this. He started with the conclusion (leaf blowers make an annoying sound…

But, it is possible to measure the intensity of sound and how much that contributes to hearing loss. CDC has a handy chart on the effects of noise here: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hear... . The existence of other sources of noise loud enough to damage hearing does not preclude banning leaf blowers.

Sound pressure levels are dependent on distance. A leaf blower might expose you to 90dB if you're using it, but someone stood 10 metres away would only be exposed to 70dB, which is well below the threshold for damage.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#42

Post by HarryHirsch »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using a leafblower is a sign of entitled loutishness. You were fine up until here. Insulting people for wanting to use an easier option isn't a great look.

I don’t think it’s wrong to comment on people who care more about convenience and cost then the externalities they’re creating (air and noise pollution). “Selfish” is not a protected class.

Especially on this website, where you can find a substantial number of people working from home in upscale developments.

Also this: the leafblower ban was voted on and passed. The majority of Washingtonians thinks that running your petrol toy in public is so rude and bothersome that the practice needs a city ordinance banning it.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#43

Post by beachy »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #35
beachy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're carrying your tool in to somewhere remote for a day's work, filthy old two stroke is the easiest, most energy dense power source. As opposed to a truck load of batteries.

Wait, what. This is about the yard crew and their hand tools. Everyone has electric at home, and the power cord has been invented.

See parent comment, which references scooters and outboard motors

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#44

Post by bookofjoe »

bookofjoe wrote: post #38

Leaf blowers were the annoying soundtrack of Westwood near UCLA when I lived there from 1966-1983. By the time I left, they were buzzing everywhere from before dawn to dusk. I cannot even imagine what Westwood sounds like now, 36 years later....

One more thing: leaf blower noise pollution is inversely proportional to the socioeconomic position of LA neighborhoods (except for Beverly Hills, which banned gas-powered blowers in 1976).

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#45

Post by beachy »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #39
HarryHirsch wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what. This is about the yard crew and their hand tools. Everyone has electric at home, and the power cord has been invented.

Yard crews can also carry batteries and chargers for hand tools. I know because I’ve helped setup a trailer charging system, powered by solar, for a local landscaping contractor. The only tool they use that is fossil powered is a propane riding mower (which is clean burning). I am working on building them an electric riding mower with reclaimed Tesla modules from an S.

That's great! I'm thinking more of people hiking in to build e.g. remote huts.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#46

Post by jdietrich »

beachy wrote: post #31
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two stroke engines should be outlawed entirely. There is no reason for them to still be sold with batteries having advanced as much as they have. Hand held tools and scooters can be electric, small outboard motors for marine applications can be four stroke or propane fired.

If you're carrying your tool in to somewhere remote for a day's work, filthy old two stroke is the easiest, most energy dense power source. As opposed to a truck load of batteries.

4-stroke leaf blowers are readily available.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#47

Post by toomuchtodo »

beachy wrote: post #45
toomuchtodo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yard crews can also carry batteries and chargers for hand tools. I know because I’ve helped setup a trailer charging system, powered by solar, for a local landscaping contractor. The only tool they use that is fossil powered is a propane riding mower (which is clean burning). I am working on building them an electric riding mower with reclaimed Tesla modules from an S.

That's great! I'm thinking more of people hiking in to build e.g. remote huts.

I agree this edge case might require less efficient two stroke systems, but is a rare edge case.

In the first world, two stroke is obsolete in every form.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#48

Post by Brakenshire »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #10

For what it's worth a gas powered leaf blower puts out as much pollution in a day of work as a Ford Raptor will in 100,000 miles. Source: https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/emissions-test-...

The problem pollutants for vehicles are NOx and particulate (particularly small particulate under 2.5 or 10 microns in diameter). This test found the truck produced a lot of NOx, and didn't test for particulate matter, so it's not really able to say what you want it to say.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#49

Post by beachy »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #47
beachy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great! I'm thinking more of people hiking in to build e.g. remote huts.

I agree this edge case might require less efficient two stroke systems, but is a rare edge case. In the first world, two stroke is obsolete in every form.

Chainsaws used in forestry is one use case that is still common in many countries, first world or not. But your point is valid.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#50

Post by jonstewart »

gumby wrote: post #26

Not mentioned is that leaf blowers blow away the topsoil and little bugs that maintain it. The ground becomes hard and no longer water permeable (it’s why the suburban ground in California looks — and acts — like concrete. My gardeners don’t use leaf blowers and people are always asking what chemicals I use to keep my garden looking so lush. I don’t use any of those either; the process is called “nature”.

DC is far wetter than the populous places in California so I don’t think we are susceptible to this problem.
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