How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C. • Hacker News Board

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#11

Post by hedora » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #2

Instead of outright banning them, why not require a strict maximum dB level rating (in other words as tested by an independent lab). Personally I’m in favor of limiting noise output rather than outright banning. Otherwise it’s tyrannical for a minority to tell the majority what they may and may not do.

There’s also the dust from the ground, which, at best, contains allergens and can also cause asthma attacks. In cities, it will also contain carcinogens that were shed by cars, giving them another chance to be inhaled.

So, if you want to design a quiet, outdoor HEPA vacuum, go for it!

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#12

Post by trothamel » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #8

What is wrong with using a rake to pick up leaves? Leafblowers are loud, dirty, they raise huge clouds of dust, they stink of gasoline, and at the end of the day, blowing leaves into a pile isn't even faster than raking them together. Using a leafblower is a sign of entitled loutishness.

Blowing leaves is faster - why would a service use leaf blowers if it wasn't less work.

And of course, that's the big issue here. By taking more time, raking makes cleaning the yard more expensive. When it comes to people in houses, that makes yard care more of an expense, which means some people will have to spend more time doing it rather than hiring a service. When it comes to condos or rentals where it's included, it makes rent more expensive.

But hey, some louts won't have to put up with the sound of a leafblower for a few minutes a week. Who cares if everyone is worse off?

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#13

Post by Datenstrom » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

A few weeks ago I saw someone leaf blowing snow on the sidewalk in Alexandria, or at least trying to. One of the most absurd things I've ever seen.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#14

Post by superseeplus » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

mrfredward wrote: post #6

>Noise, they have come to understand, is the secondhand smoke of this era. Most of the author's points about sound come down to hand waving and weasel wording. He says hearing loss is "coming up fast on the list" of public health problems (a meaningless assertion), and then he never presents evidence that leaf blowers are a significant cause of this. He started with the conclusion (leaf blowers make an annoying sound…

But, it is possible to measure the intensity of sound and how much that contributes to hearing loss. CDC has a handy chart on the effects of noise here: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hear... . The existence of other sources of noise loud enough to damage hearing does not preclude banning leaf blowers.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#15

Post by eropple » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

trothamel wrote: post #12

HarryHirsch wrote: post #8

What is wrong with using a rake to pick up leaves? Leafblowers are loud, dirty, they raise huge clouds of dust, they stink of gasoline, and at the end of the day, blowing leaves into a pile isn't even faster than raking them together. Using a leafblower is a sign of entitled loutishness.

Blowing leaves is faster - why would a service use leaf blowers if it wasn't less work. And of course, that's the big issue here. By taking more time, raking makes cleaning the yard more expensive. When it comes to people in houses, that makes yard care more of an expense, which means some people will have to spend more time doing it rather than hiring a service. When it comes to condos or rentals where it's included…

Services use leaf blowers because it's less work and because they don't give a shit about the externalities they create.

It's more than just sound. Leaf blowers mostly use dirty, dirty two-stroke engines. Tons of emissions--which, regardless of the smell, we should be minimizing--and an awful stink.

If you can afford a house, you can rake the lawn and sweep the driveway. Or, as the article notes, even in Totalitarian Hellscape Washington you can buy a battery-powered leaf blower. What a horrible horrible sacrifice you must make.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#16

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

trothamel wrote: post #12

HarryHirsch wrote: post #8

What is wrong with using a rake to pick up leaves? Leafblowers are loud, dirty, they raise huge clouds of dust, they stink of gasoline, and at the end of the day, blowing leaves into a pile isn't even faster than raking them together. Using a leafblower is a sign of entitled loutishness.

Blowing leaves is faster - why would a service use leaf blowers if it wasn't less work. And of course, that's the big issue here. By taking more time, raking makes cleaning the yard more expensive. When it comes to people in houses, that makes yard care more of an expense, which means some people will have to spend more time doing it rather than hiring a service. When it comes to condos or rentals where it's included…

[deleted]

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#17

Post by peteradio » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

trothamel wrote: post #12

HarryHirsch wrote: post #8

What is wrong with using a rake to pick up leaves? Leafblowers are loud, dirty, they raise huge clouds of dust, they stink of gasoline, and at the end of the day, blowing leaves into a pile isn't even faster than raking them together. Using a leafblower is a sign of entitled loutishness.

Blowing leaves is faster - why would a service use leaf blowers if it wasn't less work. And of course, that's the big issue here. By taking more time, raking makes cleaning the yard more expensive. When it comes to people in houses, that makes yard care more of an expense, which means some people will have to spend more time doing it rather than hiring a service. When it comes to condos or rentals where it's included…

Two stroke engines that power these things are dirty as fuck. Sucks to be the worker running these things, I'm super sure they are compensated appropriately and provided the necessary protection gear. Let alone anyone outside within 100 feet.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#18

Post by MaxGabriel » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

shiftpgdn wrote: post #10

For what it's worth a gas powered leaf blower puts out as much pollution in a day of work as a Ford Raptor will in 100,000 miles. Source: https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/emissions-test-...

They could just ban gas-powered leaf blowers to prevent that.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#19

Post by bonestamp2 » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

mrfredward wrote: post #6

>Noise, they have come to understand, is the secondhand smoke of this era. Most of the author's points about sound come down to hand waving and weasel wording. He says hearing loss is "coming up fast on the list" of public health problems (a meaningless assertion), and then he never presents evidence that leaf blowers are a significant cause of this. He started with the conclusion (leaf blowers make an annoying sound…

I understand the noise complaint, I work from home and I hear them all week as my various neighbor's gardeners arrive throughout each day. That said... I have an electric one that is awesome and it's much quieter than the 2-stroke I used to have. Leaf blowers do serve a purpose but the electric ones are a great improvement on noise and pollution.

Re: How a small group of activists got gas-powered leaf blowers banned in D.C.

#20

Post by sctb » Sun, Mar 10, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

mberning wrote: post #7

They won't be happy until the US is transformed into a 3rd world country. No cars, no roads, no lawns or landscaping, no suburbs, no pesticides or fertilizers of any kind, no irrigation or management of runoff water. Just masses of people living in dense urban hellscapes, milling around on foot, starving to death from famines and droughts. But at least we can feel good about the lack of noise pollution and not impact…

Wow, how did we get all the way there from here?

> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html