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Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#161

Post by marktangotango »

rsp1984 wrote: post #160
nlawalker wrote: post #64

A piece of simple, concrete, implementable advice I read recently that I really like is "communicate in the language of options , not demands, imperatives, requests, or preferences." Imagine yourself having a conversation with your manager or someone in a relatively similar position about a decision or suggestion you have. How often do you say things like "we have to", "we need to", "we really should", "can we", or "…

Given the support for this answer I will likely get downvoted for this, but I disagree with this advice. I am a co-founder (and CTO) of a small company myself and hence get to talk to the folks in my company quite regularly. I disagree with the notion that passion or personal preference doesn't belong in a decision-making process. Not only does it belong there, it is even a critical part of it, assuming of course tha…

Interesting that you’re actually advocating for this type of “lord of the flies” culture. It actually indicates your org doesn’t have clear direction or technical competence (imo). I’d personally be wary of joining such a company. I’ve been a part of too many directionless zombies myself.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#162

Post by playing_colours »

byoung2 wrote: post #24
sethhochberg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite ways to sum this up is thinking tactically (who and why) vs operationally (what and how). The third layer on top of all of this is strategic thinking (in theory, what your executive team is providing... even higher level and longer term abstract goals). Your executive team thinks strategically about what the goal is, your engineering management thinks tactically about the people and tasks needed to…

That's a great way to visualize it. One of the hardest parts about my transition from engineer to director of engineering was planning ahead for headcount without knowing what upper management had in mind 12 months down the line (they didn't know either).

It was a hard part for me as well. How did you approach it? Maybe, you could also share some useful links if you keep them?

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#163

Post by ryanwaggoner »

marktangotango wrote: post #161
rsp1984 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the support for this answer I will likely get downvoted for this, but I disagree with this advice. I am a co-founder (and CTO) of a small company myself and hence get to talk to the folks in my company quite regularly. I disagree with the notion that passion or personal preference doesn't belong in a decision-making process. Not only does it belong there, it is even a critical part of it, assuming of course tha…

Interesting that you’re actually advocating for this type of “lord of the flies” culture. It actually indicates your org doesn’t have clear direction or technical competence (imo). I’d personally be wary of joining such a company. I’ve been a part of too many directionless zombies myself.

This might be the most uncharitable reading possible of what they wrote. Having people advocate for different decisions hardly means that the company is a “directionless zombie”. In fact, it’s exactly the opposite. Having a culture where people don’t advocate for something but just go along with whatever is handed down to them from on high sounds a lot more zombie-like to me.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#164

Post by Topolomancer »

rsp1984 wrote: post #160
nlawalker wrote: post #64

A piece of simple, concrete, implementable advice I read recently that I really like is "communicate in the language of options , not demands, imperatives, requests, or preferences." Imagine yourself having a conversation with your manager or someone in a relatively similar position about a decision or suggestion you have. How often do you say things like "we have to", "we need to", "we really should", "can we", or "…

Given the support for this answer I will likely get downvoted for this, but I disagree with this advice. I am a co-founder (and CTO) of a small company myself and hence get to talk to the folks in my company quite regularly. I disagree with the notion that passion or personal preference doesn't belong in a decision-making process. Not only does it belong there, it is even a critical part of it, assuming of course tha…

I disagree. Talking about options is _not_ a black-and-white issue, and I feel that seeing this as being indifferent is somewhat of a stretch. Why not outline the options and their respective consequences (as far as you can observe them) as objectively as possible? Here's an example:

'One option is to do it this way. This has the following advantages. Moreover, we could also do it that way. This will likely result in ...'

And of course you _can_ give your preference---but you should be upfront about this. For example:

'Personally, I think it might be worth to pursue option 1 more because of ...'

Strong opinions are one thing, but being capable of seeing alternatives is also very, very valid. Not every [business] decision has _one_ easy answer.

(disclaimer: I am talking about my experience with academic teams inside academia; this is not 100% transferable to the business world, I would wager)

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#166

Post by JshWright »

black-tea wrote: post #134
nlawalker wrote: post #64

A piece of simple, concrete, implementable advice I read recently that I really like is "communicate in the language of options , not demands, imperatives, requests, or preferences." Imagine yourself having a conversation with your manager or someone in a relatively similar position about a decision or suggestion you have. How often do you say things like "we have to", "we need to", "we really should", "can we", or "…

Sigh. I suppose another batch of engineers will read this and start participating in rounds of bullshit instead of just doing what is clearly the right thing to do. If there are options, present options. If you know only one good way to do it, just say so.

Not doing something is still an "option".

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#168

Post by HenryBemis »

nlawalker wrote: post #64

A piece of simple, concrete, implementable advice I read recently that I really like is "communicate in the language of options , not demands, imperatives, requests, or preferences." Imagine yourself having a conversation with your manager or someone in a relatively similar position about a decision or suggestion you have. How often do you say things like "we have to", "we need to", "we really should", "can we", or "…

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

So, when talking to C-levels/suite, speak as they do. Listen to them for 10mins, and mirror the language.

C-suite need to say 10 things in 1 line.

When speaking technical the opposite happens. Speaking 10 lines to explain 1 thing.

Keep in mind, they don't expand. They compress/winzip/winrar.

The above 'option' is a great manner and I will change this in my vocabulary starting today!

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#169

Post by sopooneo »

black-tea wrote: post #134
nlawalker wrote: post #64

A piece of simple, concrete, implementable advice I read recently that I really like is "communicate in the language of options , not demands, imperatives, requests, or preferences." Imagine yourself having a conversation with your manager or someone in a relatively similar position about a decision or suggestion you have. How often do you say things like "we have to", "we need to", "we really should", "can we", or "…

Sigh. I suppose another batch of engineers will read this and start participating in rounds of bullshit instead of just doing what is clearly the right thing to do. If there are options, present options. If you know only one good way to do it, just say so.

I've had situations where I think one path forward is the clearly only sane option. But because I was told years ago to present options I say, "Okay, option X will will take a week to set up and cost $100 a month. Option Y will take three months to setup and cost $20,000 a month." But management doesn't bat an eye, they reply "Oh great! No problem, we'll get you the budget for option Y." And while I fight to keep my chin from hitting the floor, they sign off on the funds and move on the next item on the meeting agenda.

And what do I care? My conscience is clear because I presented the facts as I know them. And we get staff and budget as needed. Maybe there was some political motivation I didn't know, maybe the exec wanted to justify higher budget. Fine. I did my job and things move on.

Re: Ask HN: How to speak like a leader, not like an engineer?

#170

Post by sopooneo »

Delmania wrote: post #141
king_panic wrote: post #138

I am an app developer who interfaces with c-suite executives weekly. Every time I get into the weeds with them I lose their attention. EVERY time. They don't care about the technical aspects of my solutions, they care about what it means to their customers functionality, the price they pay for the solution or the time it takes a product to be delivered. So I put things in those terms. I NEVER get very technical anymo…

In short when communicating with anyone outside of engineering, figure out what they care about and speak to that.

I 100% agree. And one of the tricks I believe for this to work is that the first step is listening. And when you're tempted to talk, don't. Listen more. Ask questions in the vocabulary they're using if you want clarification, but primarily just keep listening.

Because that is how you figure out what it is they actually care about.

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