Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 131 posts

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#61

Post by ragequitta »

gotocake wrote: post #33
User23 wrote: post #3

Human drivers are just mechanical turks to build market share while self-driving cars become commercially viable.

Human drivers are just mechanical turks to build market share while self-driving cars become commercially viable. Don’t they have to exist before we worry about commercial viability? You’re not the only one talking like FSDV’s are just minutes away, when the truth is that when you cut through the hype and wishful thinking, they’re an indeterminate period of time away. The conversation around this subject reads like p…

I'm curious as to if there's a brigade for saying this, as it seems to be in everywhere. Aren't self driving cars on the road right now? Can't I grab one in las vegas this very instant?

https://www.popsci.com/self-driving-cars-cities-usa

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#62

Post by ohaideredevs »

relaunched wrote: post #35
chrisseaton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's earning more than average, and professional truck drivers are pretty well paid, then can't be purchase that social net himself? He can buy health insurance, pension, group income protection, everything you mentioned. I know poor people can't do that, and that's the issue, but why can't a well-paid truck driver do it?

The supply side dynamics of trucking is crazy. There has been a driver shortage for 10+ years, easy. About 2/3 of the trucks on the road are owned by fleets of 5 or less, with most trucks being a 1 unit, owner operator. The entire industry, small and large fleets, use owner operators as perverse cost savings. In some cases, you lease the truck from the large fleet, they charge you for gas and maintenance, insurance,…

I would be very interested in the details. I keep hearing about friends of friends who pull $80,000 driving a truck, $120,000 when they own one and half a mil once they own a couple. Too lazy to actually do the research, but curious how close these claims are to the truth.

Obviously you are seeing a very different picture, and yours actually comes from experience.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#63

Post by edoceo »

akulbe wrote: post #29
chrisseaton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's earning more than average, and professional truck drivers are pretty well paid, then can't be purchase that social net himself? He can buy health insurance, pension, group income protection, everything you mentioned. I know poor people can't do that, and that's the issue, but why can't a well-paid truck driver do it?

He probably can. However, there's a BIG difference in the cost and coverage he'll pay and get between what he has for options as a self-employed person doing gigs, and what he'd get on a group plan with a company, as an employee. Here's some data. I've been contracting for 4 years, and paying for my own insurance. Mediocre medical for a family of three: Year 1 & 2: $970/mo. Year 3: $1167/mo. Year 4: $1410/mo. $BIG_CL…

More anecdata: My company pay Regence $2000/mo for me+2, 3 employees + 1 spouse.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#64

Post by edoceo »

freefal wrote: post #38
newprint wrote: post #7

I'm kind of torn on this. My father has been truck driver his entire life and for the last 20 years worked as a contractor, while driving his own truck and trailer, since it gives him more $$$ than average driver who works as employee. However, he has non-existent social net. No health insurance, no pension benefits. If he out of work or has serious health issues that ground him for months, he has to dig into savings…

On the plus side, can't an independent truck driver or an Uber/Lyft driver claim tax deductions for all business-related expenses? From talking to a couple Uber drivers, my sense it that many are aggressive with the definition of "business-related" and deduct most of all their expenses. Appreciating the downsides (need to provide for one's own health insurance and retirement) I don't often see this increase net pay d…

Deductions are not like free money. There is not so much an increase in net pay, that's why it's not talked about.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#65

Post by baddox »

baby wrote: post #25
denormalfloat wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much help did he earn? How much does he deserve? The money a driver gets paid is the help. There is a market for non-fulltime jobs that would not exist at all if it was forced to be full time. Forcing Lyft to hire employees instead of contractors won't mean there will be more workers with a safety-net; it means there won't be any Lyft. That would be bad for both drivers and the people being driven.

“How much does he deserve”. Welcome to America. Honestly. This market is not a problem in European country where you get free health care. Why would uber/lyft make an exception for the US? If they can get away with it of course they will.

> “How much does he deserve”. Welcome to America.

Sure, that’s a good way to hyperbolically sum up a country or society, but it is very hyperbolic, and one could construct hyperbolic summations of other countries or societies too. Like “everyone deserves everything, regardless of their effort or contribution or ability.”

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#66

Post by baby »

RHSeeger wrote: post #52
baby wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“How much does he deserve”. Welcome to America. Honestly. This market is not a problem in European country where you get free health care. Why would uber/lyft make an exception for the US? If they can get away with it of course they will.

> “How much does he deserve”. Welcome to America. I'm assuming there's sarcasm in that statement. However... > My father has been truck driver his entire life and for the last 20 years worked as a contractor, while driving his own truck and trailer, since it gives him more $$$ than average driver who works as employee. One of the primary reasons one makes more as a contractor is because the company isn't paying for t…

We have the same stuff in France. You lose on benefits as a contractor. But you do not lose on healthcare. That’s a basic human right.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#67

Post by baby »

denormalfloat wrote: post #47
baby wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“How much does he deserve”. Welcome to America. Honestly. This market is not a problem in European country where you get free health care. Why would uber/lyft make an exception for the US? If they can get away with it of course they will.

As a rider, I am going to pick the cheapest ride. If Lyft pays their drivers less, it's because I pay Lyft less. If society as a whole picks Lyft, then it's society as a whole paying Lyft drivers less. I view Lyft more as a market maker rather than a company. In that sense, I agree with you, the market isn't the problem. The people to blame are riders, who got fed up with expensive and bad service taxis, and wanted c…

That’s why some stuff like health care should not be privatized. Because the market will always go against it.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#69

Post by scarface74 »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #44
scarface74 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we have universal health care like every other industrialized nation?

A universal health insurance may be unfair, non-american, going against a free market ideology and endorsing nanny state. But it would relieve so many problems, from homelesness to our overly litigious society, that I'd vote for it with both hands.

So why do we feel that it is “Unamerican” to not let people die on the street because they can’t afford health insurance? I thought we were suppose to be a “great moral Christian nation”?

There is nothing about the American health care system that has anything to do with the free market.

Before the ACA, if you had any type of pre-existing condition, you could not buy health insurance at any price.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#70

Post by [deleted] »

relaunched wrote: post #35
chrisseaton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's earning more than average, and professional truck drivers are pretty well paid, then can't be purchase that social net himself? He can buy health insurance, pension, group income protection, everything you mentioned. I know poor people can't do that, and that's the issue, but why can't a well-paid truck driver do it?

The supply side dynamics of trucking is crazy. There has been a driver shortage for 10+ years, easy. About 2/3 of the trucks on the road are owned by fleets of 5 or less, with most trucks being a 1 unit, owner operator. The entire industry, small and large fleets, use owner operators as perverse cost savings. In some cases, you lease the truck from the large fleet, they charge you for gas and maintenance, insurance,…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN