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If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

latimes.com

11–20 of 131 posts

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#11
This is really one of the bad problems with the gig economy in the USA. Even Switzerland, which requires private insurance, disallows group plans to detach insurance from employment, making labor markets more liquid and flexible (as well as preventing huge distortions in the individual healthcare market).

Your dad does have one social net: even 1099's must opt into SS and Medicare (paying both employer and employee shares, unfortunately), at least.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means Lyft and Uber are terminal and their insolvency is not about if but when. There are only so many $2 bills to sell for $1.

I never understood why anyone thought otherwise, unless you believed self-driving cars would be ready by now. I'm not going to pretend to understand the intricacies of Lyft and Uber and their experiments with food delivery, carpooling, and other endeavors. But scaling up does not solve the problem of paying your contractors more than they're making you - in fact it only scales up the problem. Granted, I've thoroughly…

It is basically the Moviepass situation writ large, except fueled by a massive hype bubble around self driving cars that even VCs were eager to buy into.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means Lyft and Uber are terminal and their insolvency is not about if but when. There are only so many $2 bills to sell for $1.

I never understood why anyone thought otherwise, unless you believed self-driving cars would be ready by now. I'm not going to pretend to understand the intricacies of Lyft and Uber and their experiments with food delivery, carpooling, and other endeavors. But scaling up does not solve the problem of paying your contractors more than they're making you - in fact it only scales up the problem. Granted, I've thoroughly…

Even if self-driving cars were ready right now, why would Lyft or Uber have an advantage? In theory, their current competitive edge over taxi services comes from pushing externalities to drivers.

If they had to worry about owning and maintaining all their cars, suddenly they're in a new and very capital-intensive line of business. I'd expect at least one of the established rental car chains- which have physical infrastructure like motor pools, mechanics and relationships with local auto shops, and logistics experience with all of the above- to eat Uber's lunch!

Every way I look at it, work on self-driving technology by rideshare companies is 100% smoke and mirrors to drive investment, and not a serious business plan.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#14

Anyone else see these and think about how maybe there should be some other type of worker other than employee or contractor? Those are hard definitions, and creating laws to reflect this type of worker is incredibly difficult considering people and companies figure out loopholes, but really feels like there should be another category to go with this type of work that's going to become more and more common.

Another alternative would be to decouple health insurance and retirement plans from employment.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means Lyft and Uber are terminal and their insolvency is not about if but when. There are only so many $2 bills to sell for $1.

I never understood why anyone thought otherwise, unless you believed self-driving cars would be ready by now. I'm not going to pretend to understand the intricacies of Lyft and Uber and their experiments with food delivery, carpooling, and other endeavors. But scaling up does not solve the problem of paying your contractors more than they're making you - in fact it only scales up the problem. Granted, I've thoroughly…

My impression is that the rationale is that they monopolize the market first, and exploit it latter.

Of course, that depends on a large barrier to entry, and I can't see how the barrier to entry on that market could be large. But well, VCs clearly disagree with me.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#17
post #2

If we assume this is correct what does it mean for the company and it’s employees? They are going public which means there will be pressure to make a profit. How does it bode for their recruitment and in general well being of the company? Also I cannot imagine Uber to be in any different situation.

It means Lyft and Uber are terminal and their insolvency is not about if but when. There are only so many $2 bills to sell for $1.

Unless they raise prices and accept lower volume. A contraction of profit seems inevitable, but I don't expect insolvency, at least not for the whole field.

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#18
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means Lyft and Uber are terminal and their insolvency is not about if but when. There are only so many $2 bills to sell for $1.

Unless they raise prices and accept lower volume. A contraction of profit seems inevitable, but I don't expect insolvency, at least not for the whole field.

[deleted]

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#19
post #7

I'm kind of torn on this. My father has been truck driver his entire life and for the last 20 years worked as a contractor, while driving his own truck and trailer, since it gives him more $$$ than average driver who works as employee. However, he has non-existent social net. No health insurance, no pension benefits. If he out of work or has serious health issues that ground him for months, he has to dig into savings…

If he's earning more than average, and professional truck drivers are pretty well paid, then can't be purchase that social net himself?

He can buy health insurance, pension, group income protection, everything you mentioned.

I know poor people can't do that, and that's the issue, but why can't a well-paid truck driver do it?

Re: If Lyft can't keep its drivers as contractors, it may never be profitable

#20
Lyft can be profitable today if they wanted to. The only reason they aren't is because they are fueling growth by propping up the supply of drivers through driver signup bonuses.

Ride sharing is generally supply constrained (meaning there's plenty of demand but drivers are in limited supply). If they stopped paying driver bonuses to expand in new markets or maintain share of drivers in mature markets, then the number of drivers would likely start plateauing or declining (due to high turnover) -> prices would increase and/or rider wait times would increase -> rider demand would fall -> growth would stall.

In short, they're choosing growth over profitability because that's what investor want to see. As soon as they choose profitability (which they might have to after IPO), their growth will come to a halt and their share price will tank. Watch.

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