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Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

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Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#181

Post by ModernMech »

azeotropic wrote: post #178
ModernMech wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that a journalist for a publication critical of the president was murdered by a brutal dictator, and the president shrugged his shoulders. The facts are that Donald Trump has attacked individual journalists for writing pieces that are critical of him. Further facts include that the president has lied about the migrant caravan in question as a way to win political support by claiming it contains middle…

Come now, the reality of the Khashoggi situation is that he was not a journalist at all but an an agent of Qatar and a client of the former head of Saudi intelligence, who sometimes phoned in opinion columns to the Washington Post dictated by his foreign paymasters. So that you do not misunderstand, I'm not saying that any of this excuses Khashoggi's murder. I'm saying that it's disingenuous to suggest that those who…

> I'm saying that it's disingenuous to suggest that those who ordered his killing were motivated be some sort of generalized antipathy to journalism.

I'm not saying those who ordered his killing did so because he was a journalist, I'm saying Donald Trump shrugged his shoulders in part because Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post. Donald Trump is known for holding grudges and for treating those he views as loyal differently. For instance, he suggests the federal government should de-fund disaster relief for California (didn't vote for him) wildfires while saying the government will give "A+" relief for an Alabama (did vote for him) tornado. He is a strictly transactional man. He's called out the Washington Post specifically and has looked into hurting Amazon as a way of punishing Bezos for owning the Post.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#182

Post by azeotropic »

ModernMech wrote: post #181
azeotropic wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come now, the reality of the Khashoggi situation is that he was not a journalist at all but an an agent of Qatar and a client of the former head of Saudi intelligence, who sometimes phoned in opinion columns to the Washington Post dictated by his foreign paymasters. So that you do not misunderstand, I'm not saying that any of this excuses Khashoggi's murder. I'm saying that it's disingenuous to suggest that those who…

> I'm saying that it's disingenuous to suggest that those who ordered his killing were motivated be some sort of generalized antipathy to journalism. I'm not saying those who ordered his killing did so because he was a journalist, I'm saying Donald Trump shrugged his shoulders in part because Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post. Donald Trump is known for holding grudges and for treating those he views as loyal di…

>I'm saying Donald Trump shrugged his shoulders in part because Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post.

Or maybe he shrugged his shoulders because a foreign intelligence agent got killed by a foreign intelligence agency in a foreign country? Surely Trump, with U.S. and allied intelligence at his disposal, must have been made aware of Khashoggi's true nature.

Indeed, the German press was reporting that Khashoggi was an intelligence agent right away. It took the Post several weeks to finally admit as much, and still they've continued to spend millions of dollars (for example, on Super Bowl ads) to pretend Kashoggi was a real journalist.

Whatever you think of Trump, the Post deserves a great deal of contempt.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#183

Post by azeotropic »

fredgrott wrote: post #112
wbg34 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quote from the official statement from the Customs and Border Patrol. It was also in the article. "CBP told our colleagues at NBC News that the names in the database are all people who were present during violence that broke out at the border in November. The agency also said journalists are being tracked so that the agency can learn more about what started that violence."

since when do we as a country track people over violence instead of say just oh doing an investigation of just asking wha5t happened? are we suddenly Communist China or Nazi Germany?

How do you do investigations if you aren't allowed to question suspects and witnesses and keep records of them? I'm really perplexed by this stance.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#184

Post by 18pfsmt »

codezero wrote: post #171
18pfsmt wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the interviews. She does not call them out, no matter how ridiculous or unsubstantiated the claims being made are. It's utterly ridiculous. An interviewer is supposed to push back when claims are made that contradict reality. Chris Wallace's interview with Stephen Miller for how it's done.

Thanks, I’ll check them out, apologies for not putting in an effort before commenting. One problem I feel exists (no evidence) is that sometimes the options are fluffy interview or none at all, and the interviewer is incentivized not to dig out the truth but to get the guest. It’s a bummer. I feel like the blame lays on the guest more than the interviewer because they tend to have the power in that dynamic.

That's a good point, at least WRT After Words on C-SPAN where I believe the book author has a say in who their interviewer will be. Still, it was jarring someone would not push back on some of this crap that I see as "Bircherism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#185

Post by ModernMech »

azeotropic wrote: post #182
ModernMech wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm saying that it's disingenuous to suggest that those who ordered his killing were motivated be some sort of generalized antipathy to journalism. I'm not saying those who ordered his killing did so because he was a journalist, I'm saying Donald Trump shrugged his shoulders in part because Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post. Donald Trump is known for holding grudges and for treating those he views as loyal di…

>I'm saying Donald Trump shrugged his shoulders in part because Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post. Or maybe he shrugged his shoulders because a foreign intelligence agent got killed by a foreign intelligence agency in a foreign country? Surely Trump, with U.S. and allied intelligence at his disposal, must have been made aware of Khashoggi's true nature. Indeed, the German press was reporting that Khashoggi was…

> Or maybe he shrugged his shoulders because a foreign intelligence agent got killed by a foreign intelligence agency in a foreign country?

For the longest time Trump refused to even consider that Saudi Arabia was responsible for the killing, so that's a stretch.

> Surely Trump, with U.S. and allied intelligence at his disposal, must have been made aware of Khashoggi's true nature.

Trump famously discounts the conclusions of our intelligence agencies and can't pay attention to the presidential daily briefing unless his name is included in big bold letters. I think it's a stretch to say that if our intelligence agencies know one thing then it's a given Trump knows it (and believes it) as well.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#186

Post by dang »

viivaux wrote: post #157
viivaux wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty ballsy of the WaPo to suggest such a thing, considering their utter lack of interest in the heinous acts carried out there at the time.

Silently downvote away, cowards: but the refusal of all mainstream media to cover the protest at the time, despite the spraying of water cannons at protestors in freezing conditions, the use of Stingray tech, and other super dodgy shit is a sold and undeniable fact.

If you keep posting flamebait and otherwise breaking the site guidelines, we will ban you. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules from now on. That means posting civilly and substantively, or not at all.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#187

Post by viivaux »

dang wrote: post #186
viivaux wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silently downvote away, cowards: but the refusal of all mainstream media to cover the protest at the time, despite the spraying of water cannons at protestors in freezing conditions, the use of Stingray tech, and other super dodgy shit is a sold and undeniable fact.

If you keep posting flamebait and otherwise breaking the site guidelines, we will ban you. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules from now on. That means posting civilly and substantively, or not at all.

That Was a substantive comment, which added to the original.

And it Was cowardly to downvote the original comment, which was documentably factual. It's more than a little prudish to come at me a day later and threaten me with a ban. If you have some kind of personal issue with me, I'd like it explained please.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#188

Post by dang »

viivaux wrote: post #187
dang wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you keep posting flamebait and otherwise breaking the site guidelines, we will ban you. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules from now on. That means posting civilly and substantively, or not at all.

That Was a substantive comment, which added to the original. And it Was cowardly to downvote the original comment, which was documentably factual. It's more than a little prudish to come at me a day later and threaten me with a ban. If you have some kind of personal issue with me, I'd like it explained please.

It's definitely nothing personal. It's just that you're breaking the site guidelines by posting flamebait and calling names (in the sense that the guidelines use that term).

In addition to the guidelines, you might also find these links helpful for getting the original spirit of this site:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html

http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html

http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#189

Post by justnotworthit »

briandear wrote: post #124
Tsubasachan wrote: post #81

A journo friend of mine told me foreign journalists need special visa to enter the US. In fairness I don't think they have ever refused anyone or expelled the press over reporting but the US knows who is in the country.

Journalists going to almost every country as a journalist need a “special visa.” There is nothing new or unique about that.

"Journalist visa, which some countries require of people in that occupation when traveling for their respective news organizations. Countries that insist on this include Cuba, China, Iran, Japan, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, the United States (I-visa) and Zimbabwe."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_visa

Unfortunately no citation.

I didn't know most countries have a special visa for journalists. What was your source?

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#190

Post by calvinbhai »

haha9993 wrote: post #172
calvinbhai wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: So, if for some reason, there are journalists that are creating content for groups/regimes that are anti-America (lets say ISIS, Assad, Ahmedinajad or Jong Un), would that journalist never been seen with any kind of suspicion in the US?

classic straw man argument. The immigrants in question are not ISIS and are not anti-america.

Isn't that the argument the Trump administration is using? that it's possible for terrorists to sneak in along with the caravan?
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