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Our Culture of Contempt

nytimes.com

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Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#51

Post by noobermin »

vore wrote: post #14

This is an argument you can make regardless of what is actually going on on the ground. "The problem isn't policy, it's actually polarization" -- but the article completely fails to examine the causes of said polarization: What are people feeling angry about? Which people feel angry about what? Are those people justified in feeling angry? Are those angry people just doing it for show or are their lives being actively…

This is an ideological view here. The author is the head of a large think tank, the kinds whose current position is threatened by the "extremes" on either side of the divide. Take out the AEI and place in CAP and you get a similar antagonism and a loathing of these types at the people rejecting business as usual.

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#52

Post by Fellshard »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #26
logicchains wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The left, as I see it, gets and respects human vulnerability, and our need to depend on one another, and wants to build a just, equitable society where we can all fluorish. This is what people dislike about the modern left, when it makes the assumption that the intentions of its political opponents are bad just because they disagree on methodology. There are conservatives who genuinely want to build a just, equitabl…

Where is any of that discussion even being had anymore? The once vaulted values of the right you profess have been co-opted by the singular motivating force of demonizing and owning the libs. The old guard of conservatism has been reduced to mumbling around the fringes about this thing or the other. And you do not see any such talk in close proximity to the current power center of that party. In fact, that power cent…

You have isolated the voices from the right you listen to to those that allow you to make those claims. Broaden your listening range.

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#53

Post by ip26 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #30
towaway1138 wrote: post #3

As a lifelong liberal, I've sunk into despair at the firehose of hatred coming from the left these days. And I talk to far fewer of my old lefty friends anymore--if they've made themselves awful, I just don't want to know. I'd prefer to remember them as they were. Maybe this is just a phase, but it feels like we're going to a place from which we won't return.

I support most of the liberal platform, but in recent years a large portion of the party's base has turned into a cesspool of hatred, cynicism, and thoughtless reactionism. We used to be the party of idealism and belief in people's basic goodness. What the hell happened?

We used to be the party of [...] belief in people's basic goodness. What the hell happened?

It's difficult to believe in the basic goodness of the people that make up the current president's base.

The loss in 2016 was a wake up call for Democrats in many ways. Including that maybe a lot of things they held to be true, weren't actually.

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#54

Post by unclebucknasty »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #40
unclebucknasty wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment assumes good faith.

I think it assumes that it's a complex problem and to untangle the mess will require that this is done persistently over a longer stretch of time. we didn't get into this over a couple of weeks. If this was unfolding since years if not decades then what we have now is the end stages of boiling frogs (we're just waking up to the water being unbearable having been oblivious for so long). I'm personally convinced that f…

All of this sounds good and, frankly, I don't have a simple alternative. To add, I think it's necessary to strive for good faith as a baseline.

So, I am not disputing the principle that good faith is required; on the contrary, I am lamenting its demise and the weaponization of good faith against its practitioners.

So, the issue is that while hoping it is sufficient to act in good faith, others are able to profit wildly from their own bad faith. In effect, your good faith empowers them. And, while the current situation unfolded over years, we cannot ignore the recent rapid acceleration and its meaning.

We have come to a place where bad faith is normalized and even celebrated. Not sure what the way back is.

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#55

Post by noobermin »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #16
elefanten wrote: post #13

All political mud-slinging aside, all weighing and apportioning of blame withheld, the main suggestions of the article are worthwhile. 1. Don't allow yourself to slide easily or prematurely into contempt. We do it too often these days. 2. Disagree better. You can disagree, but make your case and engage in the responses. Rhetoric has a place but it's being overused.

Your comment assumes good faith.

To be honest, I've yet to meet people in real life who mean bad faith. May be online or on talk shows it's different.

The difference is people in real life are not the ones who make the decisions.

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#56

Post by unclebucknasty »

duado wrote: post #45
paulsutter wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of my conservative friends believe that nonsense about Obama, and none of my democrat friends believe that Trump is a Russian spy. Both sides agree Trump is a swindly buffoon, and everyone agrees the Russians have higher standards when recruiting spies. The difference is that some of my conservative friends think it’s ok - or even funny - to have a swindly buffoon as president, and my democrat friends find this…

But the liberals think the conservatives are dumb enough to actually believe that Obama is Kenyan. And the conservatives think the liberals actually think that a guy like Trump is suitable material for a KGB asset.

He's the president of the U.S. That places him well beyond mere "suitable material".

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#57

Post by noobermin »

discard0000 wrote: post #41
paulsutter wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of my conservative friends believe that nonsense about Obama, and none of my democrat friends believe that Trump is a Russian spy. Both sides agree Trump is a swindly buffoon, and everyone agrees the Russians have higher standards when recruiting spies. The difference is that some of my conservative friends think it’s ok - or even funny - to have a swindly buffoon as president, and my democrat friends find this…

I find two things interesting about your comment. The first is that you refer to conservatives in the general, and democrats in the specific. This may be simply inadvertant coincidence, but it stood out to me. In fact, you use those particular constructions twice: > None of my conservative friends believe that nonsense about Obama, and none of my democrat friends believe that Trump is a Russian spy. > The difference…

Keeping it real, you're reading way too much into what they're saying.

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#58

Post by ip26 »

logicchains wrote: post #19
aabeshou wrote: post #5

[flagged]

>The left, as I see it, gets and respects human vulnerability, and our need to depend on one another, and wants to build a just, equitable society where we can all fluorish. This is what people dislike about the modern left, when it makes the assumption that the intentions of its political opponents are bad just because they disagree on methodology. There are conservatives who genuinely want to build a just, equitabl…

Do you view Pruitt or Zinke as having been fundamentally well-intentioned, working to build a more just & equitable society?

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#59

Post by [deleted] »

discard0000 wrote: post #41
paulsutter wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of my conservative friends believe that nonsense about Obama, and none of my democrat friends believe that Trump is a Russian spy. Both sides agree Trump is a swindly buffoon, and everyone agrees the Russians have higher standards when recruiting spies. The difference is that some of my conservative friends think it’s ok - or even funny - to have a swindly buffoon as president, and my democrat friends find this…

I find two things interesting about your comment. The first is that you refer to conservatives in the general, and democrats in the specific. This may be simply inadvertant coincidence, but it stood out to me. In fact, you use those particular constructions twice: > None of my conservative friends believe that nonsense about Obama, and none of my democrat friends believe that Trump is a Russian spy. > The difference…

[deleted]

Re: Our Culture of Contempt

#60

Post by noobermin »

tailrecursion wrote: post #23

Ben Shapiro acts respectfully when answering students and debating BLM or other persons. I've seen so many instances of bad behavior on the part of his conversation partner, yet Ben remains cool and professional. The worst I remember is that instance where he refused to use a pronoun on Television. If I recall the trans person in that situation behaved very badly. Jordan Peterson remains cool, even with interviewers…

You're being a little selective here.
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