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Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
71–80 of 98 posts
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm glad that at least someone here sees the problem, but I am not surprised by the typical reaction of AI apologists in this thread. You always get at least one of the two responses: "OMG, this is amazing, it's just like humans. We're probably close to AGI." "Ha-ha, humans are stupid, so the algorithm giving unexpected result is just a proof that it's better and less biased." Here, we have both in response to the sa…
Can someone explain why this is a problem? I'm not an "AI apologist", but I would consider it a good thing that the model pegs it as a rabbit when it is in more of a "rabbit orientation" and a duck when it is in more of a "duck orientation".
In the real world, you don't want AI to instantly flip from 90% confidence in one direction to 90% confidence in the other direction, because it would cause erratic behavior. What would be preferable is a large zone where it gives both labels .45 score. Then you can apply higher-level reasoning based on the possibility that the object could be either of those two labels (i.e. act on the possibility of the most dangerous or most beneficial scenario of the two).
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#73[deleted]
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#74Creator of the animation here. Most of the relevant information/context behind the animation (including a link to the repo) is in this Reddit comment: https://reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/aydqig/_/ehzyo...
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
But only with context right? It is completely ambiguous if the character is 6 or 9 without some other clue, like which way up the paper is, or from the 4 next to it (if you assume that an arbitrary rotation may have occurred). It is just a sign to me that doing some rotations as data augmentation is not good enough. Rotation invariance needs to be built into the architecture of the network (like translation invarianc…
> I think it should be giving a 50/50 classification of duck and rabbit at all rotations if it was working as expected. This would likely give incorrect or worse results when, eg, classifying ducks and rabbits in wildlife photos — animals come in orientations, and you’ll do a better job classifying them in practice if you respect that. It’s also not the case that a human would classify it 50/50 in all rotations — it…
Ideally it would classify it as an ambiguous ink drawing meant to test human psychology
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#76I quite surprised at the comments on HN so far as nobody seems to see the significance of this. Yes, the image is ambiguous. The point is that Google Cloud Vision gives an unambiguous answer of that image based on the rotation. Transformations of an image are regularly used to improve the results of image recognition. That process fails quit dramatically if in the course of a transformation the answer given is presen…
They have scale-invariant feature transforms (SIFTs[1]). I wonder if they could do rotation-invariant ones that wouldn't have a different answer depending on rotation? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale-invariant_feature_transf...
Lookup spherical CNNs and tensor field networks, both are rotation invariant using spherical harmonics. They are not really used in practice however.
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#77I quite surprised at the comments on HN so far as nobody seems to see the significance of this. Yes, the image is ambiguous. The point is that Google Cloud Vision gives an unambiguous answer of that image based on the rotation. Transformations of an image are regularly used to improve the results of image recognition. That process fails quit dramatically if in the course of a transformation the answer given is presen…
problem? this is a feature imo. it uses the rotation I give it to help deduce ambiguous content, which is helpful.
It is only a feature, because you have the information about which rotation you provide and relate it to the result. If I just try to classify an image the information about which rotation the image is under might be not there at all.
Just an example. Say there is a drone: The Elmer-2 that takes an image of a sign. Now depending on which angle this picture is taking from it might think it is duck season instead of rabbit season and never look twice.
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can someone explain why this is a problem? I'm not an "AI apologist", but I would consider it a good thing that the model pegs it as a rabbit when it is in more of a "rabbit orientation" and a duck when it is in more of a "duck orientation".
In the real world, you don't want AI to instantly flip from 90% confidence in one direction to 90% confidence in the other direction, because it would cause erratic behavior. What would be preferable is a large zone where it gives both labels .45 score. Then you can apply higher-level reasoning based on the possibility that the object could be either of those two labels (i.e. act on the possibility of the most danger…
In "real world", you expect AI to behave like human. Isn't that the definition?
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#79It's a seagull not a duck. Don't confuse the dumb AI even more by not knowing what a duck doesn't look like in the first place. Jeez.
No such thing as a seagull, as my ornithologist friend likes to remind me.
please clarify, genuinely curious, because for me, that Duck is a Seagull, not a freaking duck anywhere near that drawing...
Or the one who carries babies, what the freaking ornifkingtologist (bullshit) name for that bird who carries babies???
Have you seen a video of a seagull doing ~pipeline style~ hawaii surfing doing Tubes on the carved waves of the Sea???
If that is not a fucking seagull , my friend , you tell me...
what the fck is that???
Haha good one , randomsearch , I upvoted your comment that says: ~no such thing as seagull~
You are right, obviously...you are talking about the analogy of the book The Art of Zen Programming or something like that...
the clouds of seagulls that becames a seagull shaped cloud were fucking dissipated by the Master , and no needed to fucking slingshots, no needed to fucking staying sitting at your desk calmly looking at shitt screen like a chariot horse or donkey always look fckng becaude he cannot see the side of the visual field covered by motherfucker stupid(maybe unintentionally enslavers) humans
The One who dissipates clouds a Master , stands up from the desk , let any objects on the desk to have his hands completely empty , and goes walking of his cubicle to open air and use his bare hands open like making a number 5 and just easily dissipates the clouds
I upvoted randomsearch with 1 point , but you have the free will to give him 10 points, and he has the freewill to give himself 20 or 30 points in his mind...
...freewill always
EveryOne
thank you
Re: Is It a Duck or a Rabbit? For Google Cloud Vision, Depends on Image Rotation
#80This seems like a serious concern. What's a possible solution to this problem? Should all orientations be considered valid types? so in this case the image should be both a duck and a rabbit as the response?