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The sharing economy was always a scam

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Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#161

Post by random_kris »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #19
jeffbax wrote: post #12

Articles like this ignore the impact on individuals. For every group that is trying to full time Uber/Lyft or turn an AirBNB into a hotel, there's also tons of people who are doing in the spare time to make some extra or work the better allocation of resources into something beneficial for them. See threads like: https://twitter.com/RantyAmyCurtis/status/110272136190510694... That's what sharing is about, more optima…

There's a lot that I agree with in your post and in that thread, but this in particular I take issue with: > One poinI have no idea what orifice @AOC pulled the$3.37 number from, but it’s wrong at best or intentionally deceptive at worst. I never made less than $10/hour and usually made $15-$45 an hour. And this was BEFORE Uber allowed tipping via the app. This woman is clearly not taking her expenses into account wh…

reading that post from that woman literally triggered me. mom of 3 shouldn't be spending most of her time in nurse school and then driving for uber WHAT THE HELL?

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#162

Post by random_kris »

smadge wrote: post #61
jeffbax wrote: post #12

Articles like this ignore the impact on individuals. For every group that is trying to full time Uber/Lyft or turn an AirBNB into a hotel, there's also tons of people who are doing in the spare time to make some extra or work the better allocation of resources into something beneficial for them. See threads like: https://twitter.com/RantyAmyCurtis/status/110272136190510694... That's what sharing is about, more optima…

I think that twitter story is an example of the financially precarious position many workers are in. It only supports the idea that our economy is fundamentally unfair to working people. How is it acceptable that a mother of three going to nursing school has to support herself and her family through contributions from friends and family, multiple part time jobs, and driving for Uber? Going to school and raising a fam…

exactly. I had the same thoughts... and she thinks that is okay or even she thinks this is great for her.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#163

Post by random_kris »

PostOnce wrote: post #23
jeffbax wrote: post #12

Articles like this ignore the impact on individuals. For every group that is trying to full time Uber/Lyft or turn an AirBNB into a hotel, there's also tons of people who are doing in the spare time to make some extra or work the better allocation of resources into something beneficial for them. See threads like: https://twitter.com/RantyAmyCurtis/status/110272136190510694... That's what sharing is about, more optima…

Well, it's not hard to imagine a future in which a majority of labor is "just in time" and people all have 6 different part-time gigs going concurrently, taking whichever job notification pops up next on their phone. Optimal for profit margins for a single company, but at what cost to society as a whole?

what about a quality of those services? a full time driver drives much better than someone who does 4 different gigs part time

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#164

Post by antpls »

Y_Y wrote: post #133
antpls wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you were better at math, you wouldn't give your free time to post content on HN, would you ? As soon as you talk about future costs, different people have different believes and different bets, because they have different risk profiles Edit : why is my comment flagged?

I think you make a good point, but got flagged for snark. It's not a totally bad thing that people try to enforce politeness here.

I understand, I read my comment again a few hours later and it could be misinterpreted. Or maybe the parent edited the original message (can't remember)

I wanted to point the fact that the argument "exploiting people who are bad at math" is not a strong argument, given we are all exploited at some point because we aren't "math machine". Miscalculation can happen to anyone who is human.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#165

Post by jaclaz »

geezerjay wrote: post #160
jaclaz wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The sharing economy was always fron day 1 about rentals. That's the central premise. If I may, the central premise is about being middle-man in a (renting) transaction, shaving off a fee from it for the service of establishing a contact between the two parties and - optionally - provide ancillary services (again at a cost for either party involved in the transaction).

You've just defined a business transaction. Being paid for providing a service is not the central premise, and completely misses the whole point. The central premise of sharing economy is that people have access to resources, whether they are goods or services, that are underused or even wasted, resulting in an unnecessarily high level of economic inefficiency. Thus if a system is set to encourage those who have the…

Well, that is exactly what the "businesses" revolving around it are doing.

Offering in your words a "centralized service which handles the hard part of a business such as transactions, business models, and disputes" cutting a fee from the value of the transaction.

The point of disagreement between our opinions only revolves around that service(s) being the "hard part" of the business and about the actual amount of the fees involved for these services.

Anyway a line needs to be drawn between an actual "sharing car" approach, as an example we have here blablacar where someone already has to go from A to B and offers a ride to recover some costs and something like Uber and Lyft, here the driver is going from A to B only because the customer(s) needs to go from A to B.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#166

Post by username223 »

neokantian wrote: post #15
MereInterest wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, how dare we insist that people be paid a living wage! And health insurance is only for employees, not employees-in-everything-but-name!

I am free to make the deals that I want, regardless of what they include or don't include. Why would I need you to protect me from myself? Why do you want to micromanage other people's lives? Is your own life not interesting enough already?

The thirteenth amendment exists for a reason, and as a "neo-Kantian," you should be into treating rational/human beings as ends in themselves. A country where you're allowed to sell yourself into slavery or indenture is one I can't support. So there are limits on what "deals" you can make.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#167

Post by jeffbax »

jeffbax wrote: post #12

Articles like this ignore the impact on individuals. For every group that is trying to full time Uber/Lyft or turn an AirBNB into a hotel, there's also tons of people who are doing in the spare time to make some extra or work the better allocation of resources into something beneficial for them. See threads like: https://twitter.com/RantyAmyCurtis/status/110272136190510694... That's what sharing is about, more optima…

If anyone is interested further, this is a great EconTalk on sharing: http://www.econtalk.org/michael-munger-on-sharing-transactio...

TL,DR: Why do we all buy an electric drill to put up 4 screws in 30 seconds? Sharing/renting can be much more productive than everyone buying things themselves.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#168

Post by jeffbax »

arcturus17 wrote: post #104
jeffbax wrote: post #12

Articles like this ignore the impact on individuals. For every group that is trying to full time Uber/Lyft or turn an AirBNB into a hotel, there's also tons of people who are doing in the spare time to make some extra or work the better allocation of resources into something beneficial for them. See threads like: https://twitter.com/RantyAmyCurtis/status/110272136190510694... That's what sharing is about, more optima…

What about those of us who do not wish to take in any of this and still pay the consequences? In Madrid rent is up a staggering 17% YoY, mostly due to AirBnB. That affects anyone looking for an apartment and I’m sure if renters were to pick between having AirBnB available for their travels - which is eye-wateringly expensive anyway! - or cheaper rent, they will invariably pick the latter.

Technology is… disruptive. Not to be cliche. I don't think that "mostly due to AirBnB" is likely fair.

AirBNB is around at the same time that the economies of scale has strongly tilted in favor of cities, who have restricted housing supply for years. In other words, clustering of specialties. Tech in SF, finance in NYC/London etc where the runaway effect is like businesses clustering b/c of talent, and talent flooding to the place, and the cycle continues.

They make an easy scapegoat for politicians other bad policies because timing goes along, but the rent is likely due to broader population crunch that other cities (including Boston where I live) are facing.

That is not to say we don't need to ever craft policy, maybe some kind of restriction on rental terms makes sense. Boston just made it tougher to do short term rentals -- but at the end of the day the real problem is that Boston restricted housing supply for years with bad zoning and burdensome regulation. Now a new technology hit that democratized what people can do with their property, and it's causing some friction, but I don't think it's fair to point all the blame there.

For instance, in Boston AirBNB is We need to fix supply problems, not ban a new technology that clearly resonates with consumers around the globe.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#169

Post by jhayward »

sandeeps_ wrote: post #33
nimbius wrote: post #22

Speaking as a professional engine mechanic for a chain of Midwest shops, you have no idea how big a ripoff uber and lyft are until you're in the shop. The rates you make do not cover fleet style usage of your personal vehicle. Cabbies love the crown Vic because its intercooler let's it idle for hours on end with no worries. And they love the Prius because the idle uses no fuel. But your car? Get ready for more oil ch…

Does one need to idle in neural even on automatic gear cars?

In many, if not all automatic transmissions the pump does not circulate transmission fluid when in Park, even though the torque converter is generating heat. It's very possible to overheat a transmission in Park.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#170

Post by KorematsuFred »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #70
KorematsuFred wrote: post #51

Sharing economy has existed well before technology and will outlast Uber and others. When you ask friends to drop you at airport that is sharing. When your aunt babyseats for you that is sharing economy. Potluck is sharing economy. Economic efficiency through sharing is a great thing for society, it is just that it is hard to get it right at scale but nevertheless we are trying and we will test success sooner or late…

Doing favours for friends is very tax efficient. You basically pay no tax when you give or receive a favour. And let's face it, even though sometimes you might pay a friend to babysit or whatever it is cash in hand and no tax. But the sharing economy requires you to pay from your after tax salary to someone else, who then pays tax on that before they get their pay. On top of that the rent seeker (uber, etc.) has to t…

Yeah absolutely. That is why I do not know how to make it scale. In India often we let the uber driver cancel the ride after sitting in the taxi and pay him in cash thus he makes lot more money.

I think a networked society is colliding with a hierarchical government and the result is confusion.

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