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Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

businessinsider.com

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Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#41

Post by vb6lives »

ausbah wrote: post #29

>The Apple CEO also said he believes that it should be a requirement for every kid in the U.S. to have some level of coding education before they graduate high school. Apple launched its Everyone Can Code program in 2016, a curriculum designed to help students from Kindergarten to college learn coding. >Apple is one of several corporations that doesn't require a college diploma for certain jobs Does anyone else feel…

Not really. Knowing how to write an "if" is a lot different than wanting, or being able, to code professionally.

What we really need is basic computer literacy since most jobs will use software to accomplish things. Coding skills may help people work with the expert systems they will use at work.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#42

Post by pcmaffey »

ausbah wrote: post #29

>The Apple CEO also said he believes that it should be a requirement for every kid in the U.S. to have some level of coding education before they graduate high school. Apple launched its Everyone Can Code program in 2016, a curriculum designed to help students from Kindergarten to college learn coding. >Apple is one of several corporations that doesn't require a college diploma for certain jobs Does anyone else feel…

If anything, I'd say its more likely a hope to increase the market size for Apple products, since most techies prefer Macs.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#43

Post by ausbah »

Longhanks wrote: post #37
ausbah wrote: post #29

>The Apple CEO also said he believes that it should be a requirement for every kid in the U.S. to have some level of coding education before they graduate high school. Apple launched its Everyone Can Code program in 2016, a curriculum designed to help students from Kindergarten to college learn coding. >Apple is one of several corporations that doesn't require a college diploma for certain jobs Does anyone else feel…

If they are actually going to pay less, what's stopping software engineers from switching companies? Someone qualified to work for Apple is probably also qualified to work for other tech giants, so if it's really Apple's motivation to pay less, why not just apply elsewhere?

Because the labor supply has grown larger for all companies? If Apple is able to pay less, I think other tech companies would also be paying less - if we're assuming tech workers are equally qualified to work at all tech giants.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#44

Post by benbowdene »

pcmaffey wrote: post #42
ausbah wrote: post #29

>The Apple CEO also said he believes that it should be a requirement for every kid in the U.S. to have some level of coding education before they graduate high school. Apple launched its Everyone Can Code program in 2016, a curriculum designed to help students from Kindergarten to college learn coding. >Apple is one of several corporations that doesn't require a college diploma for certain jobs Does anyone else feel…

If anything, I'd say its more likely a hope to increase the market size for Apple products, since most techies prefer Macs.

I thought most techies prefer anything but Macs and iOS. With Macs, you get worse specs for a significantly higher cost. Similarly for iOS phones as well.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#45

Post by C1sc0cat »

DougN7 wrote: post #3

The Economist had an article about 6 weeks ago that reached the opposite conclusion. It essentially found a comfortable middle class lifestyle was going to be hard to achieve without higher education now, compared with previous generations. Now, it wasn’t specifically looking at coders and Tim was, but the title doesn’t mention that.

That's true for all Associate Professional and Professional Jobs now.

When I left School in the UK you could leave school at 16 with 4 or 5 O Levels - (Exams taken at 16) and get a Job in the Bank now its joining at 22 with a degree

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#46

Post by bluedevil2k »

ausbah wrote: post #40
arkades wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average physician has lower lifetime earnings than a UPS driver. Most of the difference comes from time spent in training instead of earning, and ... financing a giant pile of school debt. If one of your exemplars has lower lifetime earnings than a UPS driver, your point may be on shaky ground.

I believe this is the site he is referring to http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html

These numbers are wonky in the article. Average salary of UPS driver = $57,000. Average salary of a doctor = $299,000

(1) https://www.truckdriverssalary.com/ups-driver-salary/ (2) https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-0...

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#47

Post by petermcneeley »

Longhanks wrote: post #37
ausbah wrote: post #29

>The Apple CEO also said he believes that it should be a requirement for every kid in the U.S. to have some level of coding education before they graduate high school. Apple launched its Everyone Can Code program in 2016, a curriculum designed to help students from Kindergarten to college learn coding. >Apple is one of several corporations that doesn't require a college diploma for certain jobs Does anyone else feel…

If they are actually going to pay less, what's stopping software engineers from switching companies? Someone qualified to work for Apple is probably also qualified to work for other tech giants, so if it's really Apple's motivation to pay less, why not just apply elsewhere?

I think they have already done this just using a different approach. https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...

This is economic game theory. Supply and demand dictates profit share. Its also why wages tend to go up after plagues and wars.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#48

Post by heartbreak »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #31
bluedevil2k wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a silly statement - I’d say a lot more jobs currently tied to NOT needing a college degree will be automated out of existence. Jobs that require creativity and critical thinking will be the ones that survive (I believe that’s the quote from the recent Last Week Tonight). Those tend to be college educated jobs.

How about Accountants? Turbo Tax automated many of the individual needs for accountants, and plenty of investing / portfolio management advice can be found online for free. The last big push is for enterprise / business / high net worth individuals to automate their accountants. It's not to say accountants won't exist at all: we still need them as Subject Matter Experts to make changes to the software. But we won't n…

I think accounting is probably a bad example of this. TurboTax automates the job of tax preparation, not accounting in general. The national tax prep brands (think HR Block) don’t even hire people with accounting degrees to do their manual tax prep.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#49

Post by magicalhippo »

ausbah wrote: post #29

>The Apple CEO also said he believes that it should be a requirement for every kid in the U.S. to have some level of coding education before they graduate high school. Apple launched its Everyone Can Code program in 2016, a curriculum designed to help students from Kindergarten to college learn coding. >Apple is one of several corporations that doesn't require a college diploma for certain jobs Does anyone else feel…

For me there's two reasons to learn some programming:

1. Our lives is surrounded by technology, and thus software, and it'll just get more prominent in the future. Knowing a bit about how programs are put together can help reason about how a program works and its possibilities and limitations. For doing rote work it usually doesn't matter, but once you're off the beaten path this can really help.

For example, it can allow you to be confident about exploring a certain function in a program, aiding in self-discovery.

2. I found that the way you have to think when programming has improved my analytical skills. This has made me better at analyzing and making arguments, for example when reading or writing texts. This is something that's useful in most facets of life.

Is programming for everyone? No. But I think it's useful that people know what goes on behind the scenes, that it's not magic.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#50

Post by emcrazyone »

todd3834 wrote: post #10
saagarjha wrote: post #2

> Cook also added that about half of Apple's US employment last year was made up of people who did not have a four-year degree. Of course, the majority of these are probably retail, manufacturing, and support staff. Cook himself has a degree (MBA), as do most of the software engineers at Apple, I’m sure.

I am a former senior software engineer at Apple and I do not have a degree.

I'm a senior software develop & architect with two degrees. Does that make me over qualified for Apple software jobs?
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