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Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

businessinsider.com

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Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#21

Post by philipov »

saagarjha wrote: post #18
benjaminsuch wrote: post #14

I think it all comes down to the required skills. If you don't have a degree, you have to convince the company in other way that you have what they need. Especially in software development it's pretty easy to show your skills.

Degrees do often make companies more inclined to let you show them your skills, though.

I've noticed a correlation between companies that are overly interested in credentials and those that will institute open plan offices, draconian intellectual property regimes, and other employee-hostile measures. No loss there!

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#22

Post by bluedevil2k »

_red wrote: post #17

Colleges are turning into 'adult daycare centers'. Encouraging people to go into six-figure debt, so that they can get a degree that has zero marketability (except of course to continue on in college), is a deeply cynical enterprise. At least drug sellers and casino owners are open about what they do.

This is a cynical statement with no truth behind it. How do you explain the stat that college grads make a million dollars more over a lifetime? Almost everyone on Wall Street has a degree, would you call that zero marketability? Doctors all have degrees...zero marketability?

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#23

Post by jeffbax »

DougN7 wrote: post #3

The Economist had an article about 6 weeks ago that reached the opposite conclusion. It essentially found a comfortable middle class lifestyle was going to be hard to achieve without higher education now, compared with previous generations. Now, it wasn’t specifically looking at coders and Tim was, but the title doesn’t mention that.

This is true due to the cost required, but how much of the cost is largely due to credential inflation?

Much of the population would probably do better with trade training, but we've sold it to "everyone must get a 4 year degree" and it's likely doing a lot of harm to people who are better served learning on the job or in apprenticeships than college.

I think it's a good argument to have. I'm hopeful that online education and more sensible thoughts toward future debt loads among prospective students will start to chip away at the absurd costs of higher education these days.

The only way to do it though, is if people have options.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#24

Post by ddorian43 »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #22
_red wrote: post #17

Colleges are turning into 'adult daycare centers'. Encouraging people to go into six-figure debt, so that they can get a degree that has zero marketability (except of course to continue on in college), is a deeply cynical enterprise. At least drug sellers and casino owners are open about what they do.

This is a cynical statement with no truth behind it. How do you explain the stat that college grads make a million dollars more over a lifetime? Almost everyone on Wall Street has a degree, would you call that zero marketability? Doctors all have degrees...zero marketability?

.... dude why be like that ? You perfectly know he was talking about gender-studies, "art stuff", "business stuff" (depending on the country) etc.

People who go doctoring have it good (& hard).

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#25

Post by arkades »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #22
_red wrote: post #17

Colleges are turning into 'adult daycare centers'. Encouraging people to go into six-figure debt, so that they can get a degree that has zero marketability (except of course to continue on in college), is a deeply cynical enterprise. At least drug sellers and casino owners are open about what they do.

This is a cynical statement with no truth behind it. How do you explain the stat that college grads make a million dollars more over a lifetime? Almost everyone on Wall Street has a degree, would you call that zero marketability? Doctors all have degrees...zero marketability?

Average physician has lower lifetime earnings than a UPS driver. Most of the difference comes from time spent in training instead of earning, and ... financing a giant pile of school debt.

If one of your exemplars has lower lifetime earnings than a UPS driver, your point may be on shaky ground.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#26

Post by pRoPERSkyLiT »

I have a college degree and I value it a lot. I learned a lot there, not just theory but overall a mindset how to learn, analyse things. You cannot say that a college degree is priceless of course at the same time you cannot say that those without it cannot do anything. It just depends on what a person wants, for me learning was actually fun.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#27

Post by Phenix88be »

Define "successful" ? What does that mean exactly ? A lot of money ? A good life away from trouble ? Be in the middle class mean you are successful ?

Really that definition matter a lot and the you might need a college degree to be successful

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#28

Post by Ravengenocide »

ddorian43 wrote: post #24
bluedevil2k wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a cynical statement with no truth behind it. How do you explain the stat that college grads make a million dollars more over a lifetime? Almost everyone on Wall Street has a degree, would you call that zero marketability? Doctors all have degrees...zero marketability?

.... dude why be like that ? You perfectly know he was talking about gender-studies, "art stuff", "business stuff" (depending on the country) etc. People who go doctoring have it good (& hard).

I concur. Taking his statement as meaning all of college is a bit disingenuous. It's more about the feeling that you "have" to go to college no matter what you study. Of course if you want to become a doctor you need to go to college, but going to college just for having been to college is not something we should encourage young people to do.

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#29

Post by ausbah »

>The Apple CEO also said he believes that it should be a requirement for every kid in the U.S. to have some level of coding education before they graduate high school. Apple launched its Everyone Can Code program in 2016, a curriculum designed to help students from Kindergarten to college learn coding.

>Apple is one of several corporations that doesn't require a college diploma for certain jobs

Does anyone else feel like this is just an attempt by Cook to increase the supply of people able to code competently so Apple doesn't have to pay out as much for software engineers like they do now? Just increasing the labor supply to push down wages? Not saying if that is a good or bad thing, just a thought..

Re: Tim Cook explains why you don’t need a college degree to be successful

#30

Post by areoform »

arkades wrote: post #25
bluedevil2k wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a cynical statement with no truth behind it. How do you explain the stat that college grads make a million dollars more over a lifetime? Almost everyone on Wall Street has a degree, would you call that zero marketability? Doctors all have degrees...zero marketability?

Average physician has lower lifetime earnings than a UPS driver. Most of the difference comes from time spent in training instead of earning, and ... financing a giant pile of school debt. If one of your exemplars has lower lifetime earnings than a UPS driver, your point may be on shaky ground.

[Citation Needed]

There are multiple specialities and multiple pay grades. I'd appreciate seeing a citation for this claim.

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