About time. This is the type of crap that gave us "eggs are the equivalent of smoking cigarettes", "red meat causes cancer", "Coconut oil is pure poison" and many more...
“The World Cancer Research Fund report Food, Nutrition, Physical Activity and the Prevention of Cancer provided advice on red and processed meat in 2007. The organisation said the evidence that red and processed meats are causes of bowel cancer is convincing. It advises that people eat no more than 500g of red meat a week (around 70g a day) and avoid processed meats.” https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/red-meat-an…
John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
41–50 of 85 posts
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the same quality material that has been used to promote eating less fat for several decades, while obesity exploded to record levels. It’s a bit ironic you are questioning the study with regards to causality and then mention obesity exploding to record levels with an unsubstantiated, implied connection to the promotion of eating less fat. Your coment would have been perfect without the obesity comment since y…
The person you're responding to is not saying that avoiding fat led to obesity. They're simply saying that the obesity epidemic is evidence against the hypothesis that consuming fats leads to becoming fat. Disconfirming a hypothesis is not the same thing as as proving a competing hypothesis.
1. There was a campaign against eating fats.
2. There was an obesity epidemic that started shortly after the campaign against eating fats.
Fact 2 is seductive because it’s natural to assume that 1) is the cause. But without further analysis and study one can’t conclude this. In a post decrying causal links without proper statistical evidence it’s ironic to fall victim to this seduction without proper statistical evidence.
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's almost as if different human populations separated by insurmountable geographic barriers in wildly differing ecological circumstances for myriad millennia underwent selection pressure!
And have mixed-and-matched enough that claiming any sort of "purity" is idiotic. We're all braided together.
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's almost as if different human populations separated by insurmountable geographic barriers in wildly differing ecological circumstances for myriad millennia underwent selection pressure!
And have mixed-and-matched enough that claiming any sort of "purity" is idiotic. We're all braided together.
Is there purity? No, not in the absolute sense. However, we're not some homogeneous mix either. Genetic, environmental and other such patterns do form a number different subgroups which while imperfect, remain useful.
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
The person you're responding to is not saying that avoiding fat led to obesity. They're simply saying that the obesity epidemic is evidence against the hypothesis that consuming fats leads to becoming fat. Disconfirming a hypothesis is not the same thing as as proving a competing hypothesis.
Without further evidence/study one can’t conclude much. We have two facts: 1. There was a campaign against eating fats. 2. There was an obesity epidemic that started shortly after the campaign against eating fats. Fact 2 is seductive because it’s natural to assume that 1) is the cause. But without further analysis and study one can’t conclude this. In a post decrying causal links without proper statistical evidence i…
That's all I am saying.
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#46The field was corrupted early on by the sugar lobby and it took an immense amount of effort to simply make it ok to admit saturated fats weren't bad for you again. Some 50 years of research negated by a deal that went down with a very small subset of people.
The Academy of Nutritionists and Dietetics is a complete and total waste of human effort. I've never encountered a more useless amalgamation of self-serving pretend professionals in one organization. Everything they do is to protect their organization and reduce entry. To even become a dietitian, after graduating from a didactic pathway you must do a 1-2 year paid internship. And by paid, I mean it costs you $20,000-$40,0000, you work 40+ hours a week, including unsupervised work, which makes the legality dubious, and in exchange you sometimes (but no always) get to take a few credits of useless grad level classes that won't get you any further to a master's degree. And then when you finally get certified, after an $80,000 degree and $40,000 internship, you get to start a job that pays about $55,000/year peak, assuming you aren't some world renowned specialist.
The people involved are just the worst. All play professionals who obsess over trivial details like professional attire and pointless faux psychology, like learning and motivational theory. They treat everyone like stupid children and design the absolute worst literature and outreach, catering to the lowest possible denominator with patronizing and condescending advice and horrible rap songs designed to get children to eat vegetables. Meanwhile this has left a vacuum of knowledge for anyone with two brain cells to rub together, and so any reasonably intelligent adult instead gets sucked in by even worse pseudo-science blogs, a phenomenon that was created and enabled by the Academy.
The kicker for me was when I took a community nutrition class that the majority of my classmates revealed that they believed in "health at every size" and that a registered dietitians primary function is respectful communication, (read: participating in the delusions of patients) not communicating important information and truths that could impact the patients health.
That's not even getting into the absolute sham that is most nutrition research and how much of it is funded by organizations who have a predetermined outcome and just need to find a way to fit the facts to what they want. Nutrition research is absolutely rampant with activist organizations trying to coopt the field to further their related agendas.
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
It never was. There were afaik no studies ; basically the advice was given on the chain “dietary cholesterol -> serum cholesterol -> blocked arteries -> cardiac problems” of which the last was convincing, the middle mostly convincing at the time, though much less so now - and the first was just assumed but is now known to be essentially wrong.
So why didn't scientists come out in droves and push back on the anti-egg movement?
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#48acsh.org == industry front group
It really is, but it can be helpful to do more than just claim something, and rather back it up a bit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Council_on_Science_... In 1979, the information director of the FDA said, "Whelan just makes blanket endorsements of food additives. Her organization is a sham, an industry front."[31] In 1980, ACSH co-founder Frederick J. Stare was chairman of ACSH's Board of Directors and s…
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
So why didn't scientists come out in droves and push back on the anti-egg movement?
Because there's no research grants to be had by going against the prevailing fashionable beliefs in the field.
Re: John Ioannidis Aims His Bazooka at Nutrition Science (2018)
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
what's really crazy is how much money it takes to not make much progress, either. Modern labs are washing cash down the drain.
Is there a shortcut? I'm sure some improvements can be made but I am skeptical of the idea that science is just doing it wrong.
Controversially, I think we need to do less research. The publish-or-perish culture has created a perverse incentive to crank out junk papers. Most working scientists will privately admit that most research isn't actually advancing our understanding of nature, it's just a desperate effort to dredge up something sufficiently novel to publish. Conversely, there's a substantial amount of research that is potentially useful to clinicians, but is languishing unread in some third-tier journal. Most research is never published at all because it supports the null hypothesis, but we can't do good meta-analyses based on a cherry-picked set of studies. We're glutted with data, but we have a remarkable paucity of actionable information getting to the people who need it.
The problem isn't that scientists are doing a bad job, but that the funding mechanisms of science incentivise the wrong kind of work. We should be focusing a far larger proportion of our funding - perhaps even a majority - on replication, meta-analysis and dissemination. Primary research is only one small part of the information architecture of science, but it dominates our spending.
In the case of nutrition, we're spending huge amounts of money on figuring out whether coffee increases or decreases your life expectancy by a fraction of a percent, but almost nothing on behavioural research to figure out how to stop people from gorging themselves to death on food they know to be terrible for them. There's a morbidly obese elephant in the room, but we're preoccupied by the micronutrient-rich mice scuttling around the periphery.