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Ask HN: Experiences with 'Gödel, Escher, Bach' (GEB)?

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Re: Ask HN: Experiences with 'Gödel, Escher, Bach' (GEB)?

#31

Post by plinkplonk »

mreid wrote: post #30
plinkplonk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Out of genuine curiosity, what were expecting to get out of it before you started reading it? " I wasn't expecting anything but a good read.Which is exactly what I didn't get. The writing style is (imo) very turgid on the other end of the spectrum from (say) pg's crisp and incisive style. Feynman is another example of a writer who exposes his interest in a wide variety of stuff(Brazilian drumming for eg) but he isn'…

Thanks for the answers. I wasn't disputing your opinion, I just wanted to know your experience differed so much from mine. De gustibus non est disputandum. It seems the main point of difference is that you found the meandering digressions annoying whereas I really enjoyed them. For me, understanding the topics (computation, recursion, use/mention, self-reference) wasn't the main reason for reading the book. The blurr…

hey I didn't think you were disputing either. Just trying to say that I was tossing off an opinion without thinking too much about it because that was what the OP asked for.

"It seems the main point of difference is that you found the meandering digressions annoying whereas I really enjoyed them. The blurring of form and function in the writing and general playfulness were just as important and anything but boring."

I agree. Our tastes differ.

As for fiction, I generally like fiction which has a strong plot and/or characterization. Taking fantasy as a random genre, I like the first few books of George Martin's "Ice and Fire" fantasy series (the last two books meander too much imo :-P) and I can't stand Robert Jordan. I hate cardboard cut out characters and too predictable plots.

But, I digress too much from the OP's topic here so will stop now.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences with 'Gödel, Escher, Bach' (GEB)?

#33

Post by reeses »

plinkplonk wrote: post #29
mreid wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of genuine curiosity, what were expecting to get out of it before you started reading it? Also, if you found the proof of Gödel's incompleteness and RNA transcription "ultra basic concepts" my hat is off to you. I'm a programmer with a maths background[1] and I've read the book twice–once when I was 19 and again when I was 26. Both times I really enjoyed the digressions, language games, dialogues, and playfulness…

"Out of genuine curiosity, what were expecting to get out of it before you started reading it? " I wasn't expecting anything but a good read.Which is exactly what I didn't get. The writing style is (imo) very turgid on the other end of the spectrum from (say) pg's crisp and incisive style. Feynman is another example of a writer who exposes his interest in a wide variety of stuff(Brazilian drumming for eg) but he isn'…

"Feynman is another example of a writer who exposes his interest in a wide variety of stuff(Brazilian drumming for eg) but he isn't yawn inducing."

Do keep in mind that Feynman's biographical books (Surely You're Joking, etc.) were not written by Feynman in the classical sense. They were drawn from taped conversations and written/edited by Ralph Leighton.

Many people often speak and write with different tones and levels of formality, and this can cause a message to come across in a different way.

Perhaps Hofstadter would have done better to have a number of conversations with, say, Thomas Pynchon, and then TRP could have written a very twisted version of the same book.

I think the nerdiverse would implode upon itself as the multiplicative power of people claiming to have read books they haven't would create a third book, vaguely resembling a comic book version of Ulysses.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences with 'Gödel, Escher, Bach' (GEB)?

#34

Post by PixelJ »

You should read GEB like a playful, mathematical Alice in Wonderland full of puzzles, philosophy and sometimes self-indulgent wit. Once you go down Hofstadter's rabbit hole you'll get a mind-expanding romp through the meta-logical underpinnings of modern mathematics, information theory and computer science. At the end, whether you find it deep or simultaneously twee and pretentious is a matter of taste, but you'll definitely find yourself a lot more capable of thinking of three impossible things before breakfast.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences with 'Gödel, Escher, Bach' (GEB)?

#36

Post by gaulinmp »

unoti wrote: post #2

Frankly it made me feel like I'm not smart enough much of the time. But trying not to let that bother me, I plowed ahead anyway. I found quite a few things actually quite mind expanding. His exposition about infinite recursion was worth the price of admission alone. A small segment of that is here: http://amberbaldet.com/uploads/little-harmonic-labrynth.html Another book which I did find truly transformative include…

Seconded, this book caused me to do more research to cover my ignorance than any text book I've ever picked up, but I absolutely enjoyed every minute of it. I also think Anathem is Stephenson's best book by far.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences with 'Gödel, Escher, Bach' (GEB)?

#37

Post by throw_away »

It remains one of my favorite books. I read it once my senior year in high school and I think that it influenced (perhaps unconsciously) my course selection at university (cognitive neuroscience/EECS simultaneous degrees). I re-read it again as a senior in college and was amazed by how little I really understood during my first read and how nearly all the classes I chose fit into the subjects covered in the book.

Re: Ask HN: Experiences with 'Gödel, Escher, Bach' (GEB)?

#38

Post by fakelvis »

MIT OpenCourseWare has a couple of resources you may enjoy if you're looking at GEB:

A Highlights for High School course called Gödel, Escher, Bach: A Mental Space Odyssey. This course has a set of 16 lecture notes and 6 video lectures. http://ocw.mit.edu/high-school/courses/godel-escher-bach/

The undergraduate special course, SP.258 / ESG.SP258 Gödel, Escher, Bach. http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/special-programs/sp-258-goedel-es...

Re: Ask HN: Experiences with 'Gödel, Escher, Bach' (GEB)?

#39

Post by pauldelany »

plinkplonk wrote: post #29
mreid wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of genuine curiosity, what were expecting to get out of it before you started reading it? Also, if you found the proof of Gödel's incompleteness and RNA transcription "ultra basic concepts" my hat is off to you. I'm a programmer with a maths background[1] and I've read the book twice–once when I was 19 and again when I was 26. Both times I really enjoyed the digressions, language games, dialogues, and playfulness…

"Out of genuine curiosity, what were expecting to get out of it before you started reading it? " I wasn't expecting anything but a good read.Which is exactly what I didn't get. The writing style is (imo) very turgid on the other end of the spectrum from (say) pg's crisp and incisive style. Feynman is another example of a writer who exposes his interest in a wide variety of stuff(Brazilian drumming for eg) but he isn'…

Just to note - thats twice now you've noted the book is 'turgid' (in your opinion) - it seems to have stuck with you from the reading of the book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egbert_B._Gebstadter ;)
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