Live data from Hacker News

Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

nytimes.com

61–70 of 136 posts

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#61
Seems like Ben Thompson's aggregation theory could be useful to look at here.

Netflix & Spotify are aggregators, they own the consumer and distribution. Acquisition of movies costs either royalties to a studio or cost to produce the movie (actor salaries, etc.) Royalties are probably negotiated and the aggregator has leverage in negotiations because they own the consumer and distribution to them.

Insurance owns the patient, but the patient doesn't necessarily get to choose the medication. Their condition plus the doctor's prescription dictates what medication they can use. You're also not allowed to shop around for doctors who will prescribe what you ask for. Pharmacies own the distribution of medication. Drug companies need to recoup the massive R&D costs of developing drugs and thus are granted 20 year patents. This is somewhat similar to studios producing content and the copyrights afforded to those studios.

Not sure how to put all of this together but I think a big difference is that the consumer doesn't have discretion like they do in the Netflix/Spotify space. Maybe a good parallel would be Friends/Garth Brooks. If I want to watch Friends, I have to use Netflix or if I want to listen to Garth, I have to use Amazon Music. But despite the fact that I enjoy Garth's music, I can live without it or I can get it through other means (youtube, buying an album direct from a studio-owned distribution channel, etc.) People literally cannot live without some of these medications so consumer discretion is removed there.

Also, consumers don't have the ability to self-diagnose and self-prescribe. There are also no other distribution channels for medication. All of it must come through a pharmacy. There is no distribution done by the owner of the consumer(insurance companies), although PBMs may be a similar model?

Maybe somebody else could help me fill in the gaps with how the aggregator model is different from the pharmaceutical model or identify mistakes in my assumptions.

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#62
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I guess I'll just leave this here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/11/big-p...

What a terrible analysis. Pretty sure that number is just the "Selling, marketing and administrative expenses" line from the 10-K, which lumps all expenses outside of COGs, R&D and a few others. That's not just marketing as people know it. It's all the other costs of running a company too.

Except drugs are different from other products. If a drug is actually a good idea for patients, with no profit motive behind it, it will sell itself. Doctors should be aware of the drugs the big drug manufacturers are producing, and prescribe accordingly based on need. If you need to hawk your drug by plastering TV ads all over the place, or by having salespeople push it to hospitals / etc., it's arguably not a necessary drug.

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#63
post #31

A great theory but one major flaw. The utility value of most tv and movies comes when they are brand new with quickly diminishing returns afterwards. Drugs on the other hand have equal utility for their lifetimes (until replaced by something better, which can in some cases take centuries). In fact sometimes a secondary use for a drug is found and its utility goes up. Entertainment rarely has increasing utility. Even…

I don't understand how you're measuring. Hep C medicine has zero utility value for me right now. And I'm enjoying watching Brooklyn 99 from the beginning right now, because I'd never seen it. My wife is watching series after series on Netflix that are all old. My daughter is enjoying the entire archive of Disney movies. Snow White is what, 82 years old? When Incredibles 2 is coming out, you can bet the utility of Inc…

If you think you or one of your loved ones might someday need a blood transfusion I would say that's positive value right there. Even if 100% of infected blood is screened out, Hep C decreases the available supply and that will have consequences downstream.

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#64
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a terrible analysis. Pretty sure that number is just the "Selling, marketing and administrative expenses" line from the 10-K, which lumps all expenses outside of COGs, R&D and a few others. That's not just marketing as people know it. It's all the other costs of running a company too.

Except drugs are different from other products. If a drug is actually a good idea for patients, with no profit motive behind it, it will sell itself. Doctors should be aware of the drugs the big drug manufacturers are producing, and prescribe accordingly based on need. If you need to hawk your drug by plastering TV ads all over the place, or by having salespeople push it to hospitals / etc., it's arguably not a neces…

> If a drug is actually a good idea for patients, with no profit motive behind it, it will sell itself.

This is completely false.

There's a once-daily pill that prevents contracting HIV, yet most of the people who have the greatest risk of contracting HIV (Black gay men) aren't taking it. Why? According to mountains of peer-reviewed research, the predominant factor is that they don't know it exists. That is literally a marketing problem.

For patients who are aware of the drug, the most common reported reason for not taking it is that they can't find doctors who know it exists (or how the treatment regimen works). Again, this is literally a marketing problem.

In the case of this drug, there are additional barriers for many of these groups beyond just knowing of its existence, but that's the first and biggest one. It is 100% false to say that a drug that is a good idea for patients will "sell itself".

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#65

This is insurance. Literally insurance. You pay a monthly fee in return for a good, service or cash payment should something happen. however in the USA, something odd has happened. For what ever reason, be it legal, cultural or other, copay, crippling buerocracy and down right greed has stopped the health system working properly. The problem with a "netflix" model, is that doctors can currently prescribe anything, re…

>The problem with a "netflix" model, is that doctors can currently prescribe anything, regardless of cost or efficacy Unknown to almost everyone in the US is that if you are a Medicare patient, when you go to fill a Rx before the pharmacist fills the therapy, insurance software suggests cheaper generics to the pharmacist and requires the pharmacist to do the leg work of asking the doctor to change the Rx based on wha…

> insurance software suggests cheaper generics to the pharmacist

I have never heard of pharmacists using "insurance software". The pharmacy system requests coverage from the patient's insurance, and it is either accepted or rejected.

Additionally, if there is a generic they just fill it, assuming the patient consents. In fact, pharmacists in many states are required to point out generic alternatives if they exist.

> requires the pharmacist to do the leg work of asking the doctor to change the Rx based on what the insurance company wants (ie the cheaper medication)

If a prescription requires modification, the patient is required to go back to their doctor. Pharmacists cannot just ask doctors for prescription modifications.

Where are you getting these ideas from?

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#66
post #44
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when lives are at stake! Market capitalism is probably fine for coffee shops, less so for insulin pumps.

Can you name a country where the latest technology is developed by the gov't? Even in the highly socialist systems of Europe they rely on private companies to develop products.

> Can you name a country where the latest technology is developed by the gov't? Even in the highly socialist systems of Europe they rely on private companies to develop products.

And if you look at the actual financial statements, those private companies in Europe rely disproportionately on sales in the US market to fund their operations.

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem with a "netflix" model, is that doctors can currently prescribe anything, regardless of cost or efficacy Unknown to almost everyone in the US is that if you are a Medicare patient, when you go to fill a Rx before the pharmacist fills the therapy, insurance software suggests cheaper generics to the pharmacist and requires the pharmacist to do the leg work of asking the doctor to change the Rx based on wha…

While I agree insurance companies do harm, encouraging generics is probably a net benefit. Doctors, just like anyone else, respond to marketing, so they remember 'viagra' more easily than 'sildenafil' and write prescriptions accordingly. There's often no medical reason a generic isn't 100% suitable.

The insurance companies are not recommending generics because it’s cheaper for the patient...they do it because it’s cheaper for them.

There are many reasons generics, especially in the case of Medicare patients with chronic conditions, are worse for a patient.

Generally if you have a Medicare patientwith chronic conditions such as diabeties and/or high blood pressure, and their physician has successfully been managing their conditions using a name brand therapy, it’s not good practice to switch their therapy to a generic because it helps the insurance company. More importantly, it’s only the active ingredients in name brand drugs and generics that are the same. coloring agents, binders, etc... are different and those can have significant negative side effects. There is no shortage of examples of generics having worse outcomes in the case of chronic conditions.

Also it’s not just the therapy the insurance is changing, they also change the quantity. So again say you are a Medicare patient with type 2 diabetes and your doc prescribed 30 day Rx so you come back for the doc to check your blood work between fills, insurance is demanding the doctor change the Rx from 30 days to 90 days, because they don’t want to pay for the additional doctor appointment/blood work. They are watering down care and interfering with doctor/patient treatments.

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#68
post #20

> For 1 billion Australian dollars — $766 million U.S. — Australia gets, for five years, all the hep C medicine it can use. What will happen in five years ? If we follow the Netflix model, a lot of what used to be available will simply stop being there because the producer will markup the price significantly. In Netflix case, I don't really care since I can download the movies from other sources anyway, but for drugs…

> What will happen in five years ? According to the article, Australia is on track to have hep C eradicated by 2026.

That's 7 years away...

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#69
The system is too entrenched especially after all the unchecked consolidations disguised under the ACA. Put it bluntly it’s disgusting. The drug pricing trends we are seeing is a form of regulation arbitrage. We need to overhaul the FDA and the way new and old drugs are approved.

Re: Treat Medicines Like Netflix Treats Shows

#70
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a terrible analysis. Pretty sure that number is just the "Selling, marketing and administrative expenses" line from the 10-K, which lumps all expenses outside of COGs, R&D and a few others. That's not just marketing as people know it. It's all the other costs of running a company too.

Except drugs are different from other products. If a drug is actually a good idea for patients, with no profit motive behind it, it will sell itself. Doctors should be aware of the drugs the big drug manufacturers are producing, and prescribe accordingly based on need. If you need to hawk your drug by plastering TV ads all over the place, or by having salespeople push it to hospitals / etc., it's arguably not a neces…

Doctors don't just become magically aware of new drugs, it's not like every MD gets a newsletter a la "here's what shows are coming to Netflix". Treatments compete over the condition/disease just like any competitive market, even if a drug has a patent.
Post reply on HN