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Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

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Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#131

Post by CamelCaseName »

atomi wrote: post #117
CamelCaseName wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is the obstacle, the wealthy or the journalist?

If you're attempting to keep facts from becoming public knowledge you are acting against the public good.

My point is,

"It's like a video game, if there are obstacles in your path then you're heading in the right direction"

read from the perspective of a person crushing journalists implies that they are going in the "right direction", as the journalists are just obstacles they need to clear in their crusade for power/wealth.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#132

Post by CharlesColeman »

Tsubasachan wrote: post #81

A journo friend of mine told me foreign journalists need special visa to enter the US. In fairness I don't think they have ever refused anyone or expelled the press over reporting but the US knows who is in the country.

> A journo friend of mine told me foreign journalists need special visa to enter the US. In fairness I don't think they have ever refused anyone or expelled the press over reporting but the US knows who is in the country.

What's the reason for the visa, though? Tracking/monitoring or because a work visa is needed? Looking at visitor visas, most employment-type activities are not eligible, including arriving as a crew-member of a ship (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-...).

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#133

Post by ModernMech »

creaghpatr wrote: post #126
ModernMech wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Databases of journalists have slightly different optics when the president has called for opening libel laws, encouraged violence against the press at his rallies, and has labeled journalists the "enemy of the people".

Reality is more far important than optics. Contextualizing it doesn't change the facts.

The reality is that a journalist for a publication critical of the president was murdered by a brutal dictator, and the president shrugged his shoulders. The facts are that Donald Trump has attacked individual journalists for writing pieces that are critical of him.

Further facts include that the president has lied about the migrant caravan in question as a way to win political support by claiming it contains middle eastern terrorist elements, and diseases like smallpox and leprosy which will be spread to Americans.

Now we learn that journalists covering the caravan are facing undue scrutiny by border agents and are being tracked and you want to simply dismiss the context?

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#134

Post by longerthoughts »

wbg34 wrote: post #73
danesparza wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect. A criminal investigation would be legal. A quote directly from the article sums up the counterpoint nicely: “We are a criminal investigation agency, we’re not an intelligence agency,” the Homeland Security source told NBC 7 Investigates. “We can’t create dossiers on people and they’re creating dossiers. This is an abuse of the Border Search Authority.”

A quote from the official statement from the Customs and Border Patrol. It was also in the article. "CBP told our colleagues at NBC News that the names in the database are all people who were present during violence that broke out at the border in November. The agency also said journalists are being tracked so that the agency can learn more about what started that violence."

So the basis for tracking journalists and treating them with suspicion is that they were present during a newsworthy event (i.e. doing their jobs)?

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#135

Post by stirfrykitty »

atomi wrote: post #117
CamelCaseName wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is the obstacle, the wealthy or the journalist?

If you're attempting to keep facts from becoming public knowledge you are acting against the public good.

This reminds me of the notion of "samizdat" during the cold war times, but still happening now in various countries, particularly China, Vietnam, North Korea, et al.

The people in control want zero accountability despite what they may say. Power corrupts people and once they experience it, they want more.

I know people from China, and they, to a person, say where they came from is a hideous form of life. They could say nothing. The father of this family will not return, ever. If he does, he stands to be arrested for what basically amounts to "thought crimes".

This man has explained to me so many things about the facets of life in China. From filial piety, to how Confucianiam/Legalism is the thought process of everyone in power. He was saying that the current Chinese leader is in love with the writings and legalist thought of Han Fei Zi and Shang Yang, and these two ancient philosphers inform his current thinking strategies. Even the new social credit system stems from this thinking of rewarding people for being "good" and even being a prefect for the state for additional "rewards". China is now offering bounties to people who turn in their neighbors for looking at porn. I believe the going rate for a turn in and subsequent conviction is $86k. I pray nothing like this comes to the west.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#136

Post by ratsmack »

ModernMech wrote: post #108
creaghpatr wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are investigating or otherwise overseeing the border, would it not be useful to have a list of journalists who are actively gathering on-the-ground intel (for their jobs)? This is a weak attempt to make it look like the Obama era abuses a la Sheryl Attkinson. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/01/29/sharyl_at...

Databases of journalists have slightly different optics when the president has called for opening libel laws, encouraged violence against the press at his rallies, and has labeled journalists the "enemy of the people".

> encouraged violence against the press at his rallies

Could you give a specific example of this?

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#137

Post by longerthoughts »

creaghpatr wrote: post #100
danesparza wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect. A criminal investigation would be legal. A quote directly from the article sums up the counterpoint nicely: “We are a criminal investigation agency, we’re not an intelligence agency,” the Homeland Security source told NBC 7 Investigates. “We can’t create dossiers on people and they’re creating dossiers. This is an abuse of the Border Search Authority.”

If you are investigating or otherwise overseeing the border, would it not be useful to have a list of journalists who are actively gathering on-the-ground intel (for their jobs)? This is a weak attempt to make it look like the Obama era abuses a la Sheryl Attkinson. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/01/29/sharyl_at...

But they're not just tracking them so they can reach out and seek further details as part of an investigation. They're gathering information in excess of what they would need for that purpose and using the information they have to flag them for additional screenings, detain them, and in at least one mentioned case turn them away at the border.

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#138

Post by [deleted] »

ModernMech wrote: post #108
creaghpatr wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are investigating or otherwise overseeing the border, would it not be useful to have a list of journalists who are actively gathering on-the-ground intel (for their jobs)? This is a weak attempt to make it look like the Obama era abuses a la Sheryl Attkinson. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/01/29/sharyl_at...

Databases of journalists have slightly different optics when the president has called for opening libel laws, encouraged violence against the press at his rallies, and has labeled journalists the "enemy of the people".

[deleted]

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#139

Post by rickbutton »

ratsmack wrote: post #136
ModernMech wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Databases of journalists have slightly different optics when the president has called for opening libel laws, encouraged violence against the press at his rallies, and has labeled journalists the "enemy of the people".

> encouraged violence against the press at his rallies Could you give a specific example of this?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-incitement-vi...

^ videos of Trump encouraging violence

Re: Leaked Documents Show the U.S. Tracking Journalists Through a Secret Database

#140

Post by gizmo385 »

Areading314 wrote: post #125

This is terrible, but the headline is exaggerating: this only affects 50 people relating to a specific issue, not all journalists in the US.

Sure it only affects 50 people /now/, but this kind of a thing is really slippery slope. What's to stop the application of this process to other issues that the government would rather journalists not be looking into?
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